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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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Aloysius
.224 member


Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 12
Your Double Rifle...
      #38956 - 10/10/05 12:29 PM

After getting eye-strain spending 3 hours straight looking through this forum I have a question for you all..

How did you get your double rifle?

To explain..I know that some people have the ability to write a check for thousands of dollars, but most, including myself, have to scrounge and save for the things we want most such as a double rifle. What sacrifices did you have to make in order to have the day where you finally had the double rifle of your dreams in your hands?

I'm curious because what I want most is a Searcy .470 NE. Even though I'm single, have no children, or large debt, it will be a few years before I can finally order one. What I have to avoid is the little things that push that day farther back, such as gadgets, braces for the kids (that I might have in the future), a down payment for a home and other things that put a dent into a DR nest egg. Did any of you have to deal with this?

My last question is was it worth it? Was it worth whatever sacrifice you had to make? Did you share your quest with your families and loved ones? Or did you have to sneak the box in the house past your wife?

I know this all may sound crazy but i remember someone saying that its not the destination but the journey itself..or something to that effect.


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: Aloysius]
      #38970 - 10/10/05 06:41 PM


Aloysius

Firstly, I would suggest you get something behind you befre venturing into the DR territory.
ie A house or something like that.

When I left uni / college, I saved and saved and saved for a deposit for a house and then
bought the land and built the house. I then worked days a week , 10 - 12 hours a day
to pay it off which I did very quickly.

Then once you have no debt and something behind you, everything you earn is yours
to do what you like with - buy toys etc etc

The reason I buy DR's is because I like shooting them / hunting with them.
IMHO, there is no difference between me buying a DR, someone else
buying a fishing boat, someone else buying a Harley Davidson.
It's just my preference is for DR's/

My suggestion is make sure you put all the bits of coin + a good bit away each week
and set a goal to get to X$ figure by X Date ad then go for it. You'll have the money
in no time. Stop going out on the town, dinners, junk food, night clubs etc. It will save
you heaps. THen once you have a DR, you can spend your money on all the other
things you need for it !!!

My last question is was it worth it? Yes

Was it worth whatever sacrifice you had to make? Yes

Did you share your quest with your families and loved ones? NO

Or did you have to sneak the box in the house past your wife? I am Single

Question for you - why not borow the $8 or $10 and then you are forced to
make payments and to cut down on the interest all you have to do is pay more off
than required each month.

Good luck in your quest - IMHO, you are at least thinking about it in the right way.

500 Nitro


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banzaibird
.333 member


Reged: 18/09/05
Posts: 358
Loc: S.C. Pennsylvania, USA
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #38978 - 10/10/05 11:01 PM

I agree with most everything 500 Nitro told you. First you need to secure a house, career etc. After all with out the house that double will get all rusty when it's with you out in the rain . It's just a natural progression of things. I'm still saving for my first high grade double. However I've been fortunate in that I have a full machine shop available to me. Thus for a fraction of the cost I've been able to make my own DR's on shotgun actions. This I decided to due to hold me over till I can afford a better quality gun which is still a few years away. However even with out a machine shop you can get into the DR market with something like a Valmet/Tikka for less than $2,000 and then move into the more desired SxS later on when you have a firm foundation for your life.

BB


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foxfire
.375 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 511
Loc: Long Island N.Y.,
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: Aloysius]
      #38981 - 10/10/05 11:55 PM

A double rifle is:................................. a toy...... no a tool....... no a necessaty........a way of life .......a matter of life and death........A luxury item.

Get you life and your affairs on track and then go looking for a double rifle. It will still be there when you can afford it. There are guns that will do (almost) the same thing for a lot less money.

When you finally get one, the wait will seem worthwhile.


--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished


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Aloysius
.224 member


Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 12
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: foxfire]
      #38989 - 11/10/05 02:33 AM

Thank you to every one who has replied so far!

See, the thing is (and most of you will think I'm crazy) is that I'm in no particular rush to buy a home. When I was married I had a $250K home, cars, and all the responsiblities that went with it. I felt like I was dead already and that id be a old man before I knew it. because of that and a few other reasons I got divorced. Now, I focus on doing everything that I want to do in my life before my time is up. BTW, I'm 29 and no where near a mid-life crisis yet. Having a double rifle means many things to me:

a) its something I've wanted since I was 13 and getting a chance to hold one. Even then, as young as I was, I still remember how incredibly solid it felt, the smoothness of the action, and holding something that represented hours of painstaking craftsmanship.

b) I often imagine it being passed down to my future great grandson/daughter, along with how to properly care for it so it can be passed further down the line. I still remember how it felt when my father presented me with my grandfather's German target pistol. Every time I bring it to the range I think of him, the short time I had with him as a child, and how the pistol is a link between he and I.

c) To me, there is nothing better than the rush of a big bore going off, taking the recoil, and having the satisfaction of the round going on target. Though its probably not that big of a deal to someone that has shot a .577, .600, or bigger..the largest I've fired was a Ruger #1 in 458 Lott. It put a smile on my face.

Again, thank you to those so far that took the time to reply. I'll be squirreling some cash away in my safe and waiting for the day I call Searcy.


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davem3
.300 member


Reged: 10/02/04
Posts: 121
Loc: birmingham,al usa
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: Aloysius]
      #38993 - 11/10/05 03:06 AM

I was married, had a daughter etc. when I got a chance to shoot a double and was hooked.
No way to afford a good double and Searcy and Tikka were not around so I did the next best thing.

I bought what I could afford - a .500 BPE and 45 years later I still have the gun and shoot it on a regular basis with nitro for black loads.

Also might be used as down payment on the Searcy or sold at the time you go "modern" but you can be shooting while you save. Dave


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srose
.300 member


Reged: 30/09/05
Posts: 139
Loc: North Carolina
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: davem3]
      #38994 - 11/10/05 03:56 AM

If you're hooked on a double I feel for you. I've been hooked since I handled one when I was 9 years old. Wanted one ever since. Took me a lot of years to finally get my first and can't stop now. Be careful buying and don't buy any junk. There are lots of good doubles out there and a lot of bad ones too. I bought two period bad ones and then bought a Chapuis and was happy. Its no fun to get the double you always wanted and then have to have it worked on for months. Find a good dealer to locate what you want and make sure its shoots before you buy it. Most I have dealt with will do there best to make it right. I own several now of different makes and I'LL say its worth it. Good doubles are a very good investment and loads of fun.
Good Luck in you quest!

Sam


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foxfire
.375 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 511
Loc: Long Island N.Y.,
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: Aloysius]
      #38995 - 11/10/05 03:59 AM

In reply to:

See, the thing is (and most of you will think I'm crazy) is that I'm in no particular rush to buy a home. When I was married I had a $250K home, cars, and all the responsiblities that went with it. I felt like I was dead already and that id be a old man before I knew it. because of that and a few other reasons I got divorced. Now, I focus on doing everything that I want to do in my life before my time is up. BTW, I'm 29 and no where near a mid-life crisis yet. Having a double rifle means many things to me:





Hell with those circumstances you should order one right away. Go deep into debt and order one immediately.

All kidding aside you'll know when the time is right, you just need to get your priorities in order.

--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished


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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: Aloysius]
      #38997 - 11/10/05 05:14 AM

I've been a metalsmith since I was a boy.
My grandfather, my dad and I would leave the others inside with thier board games, televised sports, and snack crackers to spend time out in the machine shop building together.
Every day I use my grandfather's lathe, the same tool that at the age of four years and change I cut my first metal chip.

My dad and I would sit up late in the parlor discussing barrel rifling machine design, our tastes in stock shape, the jobs of the old craftsmen at the best gunmakers' shops...
He'd tell me about his trips to the city as a kid and how the old guys at Abercrombie & Fitch would let him into the gun room to handle the very best guns in thier stock (how things have changed)
He told me about H&H, Rigby, Mahillon, pairs of guns with tooling serial numbered to the guns and cases made for them with all the load data and handling instructions printed inside the box lids.

During my life, health issues with both of those old guys kept any of us from pursuing any kind of glorious collection of guns, let alone considerations of getting on safaris or driven game hunts.
That never kept us from discussing the fine guns or the men who made them. My career in metals has taken me through top end auto restoration (concours etc.) fine jewelery, tool and die making and machining and fabrication, custom bicycle frame building, engraving, and support and consultation to the engineering field.
I know good metal work when I see it, I really appreciate fine hand work from the era of development of the metallic cartridge.

When my dad passed away, shortly after he'd spent years caring for his ill and dying parents, I worked with my brother to clear his house and move on with our own lives.
We divided dad's guns up between us, I took his library and reloading room along with all of his shooting notes and diaries.

I couldn't afford a modern nitro (or vintage cordite for that matter) dangerous game double rifle. I thought about it some too and realized that I didn't want to get out to africa to hunt dangerous game at all.
My interest in hunting is local, costal game and to the benefit of my interest and my budget, I found a deal on a presentation grade Mahillon two barrel set sixteen bore double rifle/12bore SxS shotgun.
I have shot that gun, and am still in the process of getting it sorted as a running field gun and hunting rifle.
It's close though. I know it shoots well as a rifle, and I'm very entertained with it's performance as a shotgun.

Since I've gotten that firearm, my study and research of the earlier days of metallic cartridge development has gotten me into conversations with interesting and knowlegeble men all around the world. I have ended up with two other double rifles, one of them was made available to me during a telephone conversation on loading black powder metallic cartridges for the 16b rifle. That gun is my J&W Tolley Black Powder Express gun. The third is another sixteen bore pinfire double rifle. I have less in these three than I'd need to even pick the phone up and start a conversation with Mr Butch Searcy.
As a metalsmith, I've gotten away with loading them for a fraction of what I'd have to pay for modern nitro ammunition too. Furthermore, at this point, I have three double rifles that I can hunt any four legged game in North America with. No trophy fees, no safari expenses, all I need is lead, black powder, and gasoline for the truck.

My wife is fully supportive of my interest in the old guns.
She likes my taste in guns too. I've taken the attitude that all the guns I buy are essentially for our daughter (once I'm dead...) and from what I've seen the old guns have been a good place to put our money.

I'm with the -go get something you can afford now and use it- crowd. Sell what you have now and set yourself up with a good, well made old double rifle.
You don't need the stereo, the jetski, the new car or whatever it is that you can sell and fund your first double rifle purchace. Ditch it all and buy an old milk truck to live in and travel the continent and hunt with your double rifle!



--Tinker


--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: Aloysius]
      #38998 - 11/10/05 05:36 AM



Aloysius

Well your last post changes the situation entirely
but I don't think you are crazy.

I'd go into debt and buy a second hand one - you'll save
faster this way as you'll want to pay it off faster.

Good luck - you at least know why, what and how with
your goals which is more than you can say for alot of
younger people now.


Be careful buying and don't buy any junk and don't buy on price
and buy from someone reputable.
Price is often reflective of how good a gun is.


Good luck.


500 Nitro


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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: Aloysius]
      #39000 - 11/10/05 06:27 AM

Aloysius All your questions are valid, and deserve an answer! However, I will answer some of your questions with some other questions!

#1 What year car are you driveing, and what did it cost?

#2 What price range are thinking of for your double rifle?

#3 Do you think a double rifle is worth the asking price?




#1 It always strikes me funny when someone tells me they can't afford a $10K double rifle while sitting in an automobile that costs in the area of $35K!

#2 It seems the average price for a working double is in the area of $10K, to $14K! That being said, the price of a B.Searcy PH is $9.5K, and that is for a rifle made to fit you, and is backed by a man you can trust. That is $500 less than the average 90 yr old used, and some times used up, rifle. To top that off, only half is due on order, and you have 7 mo to 14 mo to get the rest up. That same $9.5K will not buy a used car that is worth driveing, and that will be in the junk yard in 5 yrs.

#3 If you think the double rifle is worth the $10K to YOU, then the problem is solved. drive that automobile two more years, and finance the $10K over two years, at payments that will be far under what those car payments were. IMO, you will never miss a penny of those payments, and In my experience people who have a rifle made to their own spcitications, rarely ever sell them, but they become family treasures to hand down.

The first double rifle I owned only cost me $900, and I had to borrow that! I was only 19 yrs old, 50 yrs ago, and I'm not sorry about any one I've bought since! I can guarentee you the last few I've bought have not cost $900! [color]



--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: Aloysius]
      #39001 - 11/10/05 07:20 AM

Aloysius:

Love the screen name. Personal significance or are you a Preston & Child fan?

First, great post and a hearty good for you for talking about this before rushing to make a decision. The guys on here will not steer your wrong.

I "bought" my first double last year, when I was 29. I say "bought" because I found one I loved and was prepared to buy it when I told my dad what I was doing. He wanted to go with me to Hendershot's to look at it. When I was ready to buy it, he bought it for me, under the condition that I put my money into my son's college education savings account. So we look at it like everyone lucked out.

I have been truly blessed in my life. I have a great job, wife and family. I too have always wanted a DR from a young age. I knew I'd get there as long as I reach some other goals first.

I own a home, max out my retirement account each year (and my wife's) and fund my son's college savings account as much as I can.

I saved my money and bought something that I always wanted. I can't afford to go to Africa any time soon (because of my financial plan), but that can wait. My future and my son's college is more important to me now than anything else.

Just my two cents...



--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE


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Aloysius
.224 member


Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 12
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: clark7781]
      #39004 - 11/10/05 07:52 AM

Tinker,

Thank you for your post and the thought and time put into it. Those are the types of stories I like to hear of. I believe a firearm is more than just metal, wood, and a collection of working parts. Its something that can represent time spent with the people you love, an object that brings you and others pleasure shooting, and something that be given to someone that can get the same thing out of it. When I take my grandfather's pistol out of my safe I can vivid remember him wrapping his arms around me, the smell of his pipe tobacco, and his work callused hands gently folding over mine, showing me how to properly hold it. I would live in a cardboard box before selling that pistol and its value to me is immeasurable.

500Nitro,

I used to be into toys (motorcycles, jetskis, etc.) but fell in love with having just one thing of incredible quality, that won't depreciate and that I can keep forever, or until given to someone in my family. I'd rather scrimp on the little things in order to have my DR, than waste money on things that will eventually lose my interest.

Dugaboy,

#1. I drive a Mazda MX-3 that I bought for $1500 cash. Earlier this year I sold my Dodge Ram Quad-Cab with a Hemi engine and do not miss the payments. I DO miss the truck, but not the payments or insurance premiums.

#2. My price range would go as high as $10k. It may sound funny but I can't see spending more than that even if I had it laying around. Right now my entire collection doesnt come quite close to that. I have a 12 gauge coach gun, Ruger Blackhawk 45 Long Colt, satin nickel .50 DEP, Colt H-Bar, and the above mentioned target pistol. These just kind of hold me over until I can get my DR. During my marriage I sold about 20 assorted firearms because of incessant nagging and regret that decision to this day.

#3. I believe in the saying "you get what you pay for".
I know that with Searcy's reputation and $9,500 (plus extra for some engraving I want) that I will have a quality rifle that will last a long time. Though I've been to Africa, specifically Uganda, I really don't have a desire to hunt there. Though a .470 NE is more than what I need, its what I want and I'm willing to save, scrounge, and hustle to get it and I know that I won't regret a penny of it.

Clark7781,

It's my Catholic name, though I'm non-practicing, and even when I was little I always loved it. I guess you could say I find it elegant and like that way it rolls off the tongue. What is Preston & Child? With us being in the same range age its good to hear of someone having what they want and a happy family to boot. If I'm recalling correctly, isn't your Dad having a DR built, a .577?
You live real close to me, I live in Anne Arundel County, MD. Would you mind if I stop by the range when you guys shoot it for the first time and gawk?


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Taos
.300 member


Reged: 09/05/04
Posts: 169
Loc: Nevada, U.S.A.
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: Aloysius]
      #39007 - 11/10/05 08:16 AM

Mind what foxfire says. I am an expert on doing things ass backwards!! I had the D.R. before I had a home but I had a wife to bitch about my guns and no home every day!! It is not a pleasant experience( which is why she is now an ex -wife but I could have had a another D.R with what it cost to gewt rid of the bitch!!) so heed fofires advice I have been there and done that and it won't work if your wife has the brains of a giraffe!!!

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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: Aloysius]
      #39035 - 11/10/05 10:13 PM

Aloysius:

Pleasure to meet you!

I've been trying to get to the range (closest public one for me is down near Fredricksburg) where I can shoot the .500.

PM me your email and maybe you'll be able to tag a long and take a few pops with that monster.

Yep, my old man is getting his .577 from butch sometime after the first of the year. It's "ours" because I'm throwing some money towards it too.

When my old man gets his .577, you'd be more than welcome to come and see the first rounds go down range. I'm letting him shot it first - and I doubt I'll be gawking - probably LMAO instead!

I asked about your name because in the Douglas Preston, Lincoln Child's books (The Relic, Still Life with Crows, Brimstone, etc) the main hero is named Aloysius Pendergast.

Are you going to go to DSC this year? (Dallas Safari Club) There are going to be a lot fo DRs there, including Butch. A lot of guys from AccurateReloading are going and if you want to learn everything there is to know about DRs, that's a good place to start! I'm taking my dad down for the weekend. I believe it is January 27 to 29, 2006.

Send me a PM....

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE


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mstarling
.224 member


Reged: 07/01/04
Posts: 37
Loc: West Virginia, USA
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: clark7781]
      #39042 - 12/10/05 02:18 AM

Aloysius,

(Boy, I'm not sure I'm doing you any favor here but here goes: )

From a guy that came to understand late in life that hunting Africa is a grand passion: The problem of order is always worth some real concern.

Being young has both its advantages and disadvantages. Finding the thing that will be a good long term passion is really important as it allows you to plan for a long term during which you really want to be exercising the passion.

This African Hunting thing is not inexpensive. The gear is also not inexpensive ... and if you've developed a taste for doubles it can get more than slightly expensive.

You probably ought to decide if the hunting or the equipment is your primary interest. If the hunting is, then getting that started at a reasonable pace (plains game every couple of three years) is a good idea. Start with a reasonable .375 bolt rifle (something like a Winchester Classic or a CZ) and aside a little money every year for the heavy double you want.

That sort of approach would give you the ability to do other things in life while recognizing that where you spend your money is important. Will let you make the choices of new cars versus banking the money for the next trip and the DR kitty ... and get you hunting early enough to fully develope the addiction



Edited by mstarling (12/10/05 03:38 AM)


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new_guy
Sponsor


Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: Aloysius]
      #39052 - 12/10/05 06:19 AM

Aloysius - "how did I get my double rifle?"

Well, I was one of those guys (like many here) that had been a gun nut since I was a kid. Started with buying Pre-64 model 70's and then a Belgian Browning here and there, graduated to Parkers over the years... etc,etc...

Then looked up one day and over the years, I had kinda collected 10-15 guns that were kinda worth a 1-2K each.

From there, the decision was easy for me. After all, I can only shoot one gun at a time, right?

So I began liquidating... add them all up and it's not too difficult to get a few good doubles.

I don't know that that is the correct formula, but that's how I got there.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com


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Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: Aloysius]
      #39059 - 12/10/05 09:18 AM

When I went I decided that I wanted to go hunt Africa because one of my best friends, David hunted Africa and I wanted to hunt Cape Buffalo.

On my hunt I didn't own a double rifle. I borrowed another best friend's, Mark (400 Nitro Express)A Hollis 450/400 3 inch.

I bought my A. Hollis and Son 450/400 3 inch after I returned from Africa.

Is it worth it?
If hunting as hard as I've ever hunted for 10 days, being treated in a grand style and catered to, and having the best time of our lives for my wife and I, I'd have to YES, it was worth it.

I'm not saying that the hunt and trophies were a value, but rather the experience, the people I met and still keep in touch with, the wonderful new friends on this and other forums, sharing and learning new infromation and experiences, priceless!

Trophy hunting is a differant animal. About all you have to do is step where the PH steps, try to be quite, try not to shoot your PH in the back and put the bullet on the target where it has to be! Then you get to accept the handshakes and slps on the back when you are successful!



--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!

DRSS


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bigdog
.375 member


Reged: 05/02/06
Posts: 559
Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: Aloysius]
      #50958 - 27/02/06 02:13 PM

I got my Searcy 700NE by trading alot of smaller guns for it. I have been collecting guns for 25 years and had to trade a nice chunk of my smaller stuff for it. I am like most of you, no way could I buy it for outright cash. I think it was worth it, because I have wanted one for a long time and finally had a chance to trade for one.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad


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Dutch44
.275 member


Reged: 23/02/06
Posts: 80
Loc: Missouri
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: bigdog]
      #50986 - 28/02/06 01:26 AM

Aloysius:
Like other members I traded up for my Rigbys. I started collecting single-shots twenty years ago. My strategy was to buy the best at a good price and it would hold it's value. Lucky for me that I found a DR dealer looking for single-shots. I would caution priorities first. Have a solid plan and stick with it. Perserverance pays off. Also, you can never ask too many questions. Read everything you can and, when looking at used guns...if your in doubt, there isn't any.


Mike


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Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Your Double Rifle... [Re: Aloysius]
      #51002 - 28/02/06 05:07 AM

My story is pretty similar to the others.

I've loved SxS shotgun since I was a little kid. I saved up and bought a Stevens 311 when I turned 18! I grew up hunting grouse in Alaskan and so I've been hunting with doubles from the begining. I started with a Savage 22/20 gauage combination gun.

Later on I found out there were SxS double rifles so I had to have one.

After a good deal of research I thought 9.3x74r working gun would be just the ticket for the hunting I do. So I saved up money and waited thinking it'll be a few years.

Well to my surprise when I was doing some grad school work in Europe I found out that small and medium calibre double rifles were pretty common with normal hunters and the prices for a Rizinni, Merkel, or Chapuis were not that bad. So I made friends with the local gunshop owner and visited the historic gunmaking region of St. Etienne in France and saw several shops. I bought a new Chapuis UGEX in 9.3x74r for not much more than the price of a double shotgun.



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In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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