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mhb
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Reged: 20/09/05
Posts: 77
Loc: S.E. Arizona
Merkel .500 Observations, Continued.
      #38557 - 02/10/05 09:26 AM

Today (Saturday), I went back to the local range to continue testing my new Merkel. I wanted to chronograph the loads I originally put together, and just become more familiar with the rifle.
The weather was better today - not too hot, and the saber-toothed gnat season is finally over. So, I set up the chronograph (an Oehler 35-P), put a target out at 50 meters, carefully aligned the two for offhand shooting (as I still don't have a standing rest), loaded the rifle, assumed the position and took a six o'clock hold, and commenced fire, right and left in fairly short order. The shots struck at 7 o'clock, but 3 3/4" low, and touching each other. Only one velocity was recorded: the left (second) barrel, at 1932fps. O.K., I thought, offhand it obviously shoots to a slightly lower point than when the rifle was rested over the back of a chair, and the velocity is lower than A-Square's manual lead me to expect for that charge weight (109 grains of 4831). Let's try again. A second pair of cartridges went into the breeches, the stance was assumed, and a center hold taken on the black: Boom (Ouchandbadlanguage! I can't believe I did that stupid thumb trick AGAIN! But I had - and drew even more blood than the first time - bled like the proverbial stuck pig - only NOT on the rifle). Laid the rifle aside and found a clean cloth and a bandaid. This shot had struck the target at exactly the same windage, but at the bottom edge of the black - better. Fourth shot attempted after the customary short wait for the throbbing to moderate - same elevation but 4 inches right of last shot (at least I'm consistent when in pain). No velocity recorded for either shot in this pair - what to do? The logical thing (at the time) seemed obvious: instead of shooting as nearly through the middle of the sky screen windows as possible; raise the skyscreens so as to allow the bullet to pass nearer to them - surely they'll register that way. The adjustment was made and the alignment was checked carefully: looks O.K. to me! Load the third pair of rounds and assume the position: center hold and squeeze:Boom... the middle skyscreen immediately flopped over 90 degrees right and pieces of plastic flew in graceful arcs. More bad language, with not-unimaginative elaboration.
A survey of the wreckage revealed the sorry truth: I had set the skyscreens a tad TOO high - the bullet grazed the top of the front screen case, breaking the halves apart, and nose-dived into the middle screen case, shattering it, but missing the rear skyscreen altogether. Two side pieces and one top piece for the window frames also bit the bullet, so to speak (but were actually broken by the shock, not by the bullet or fragments). The bullet did NOT strike the target anywhere at all, and the chronograph was hors-de-combat (but the skyscreen guts appear to be O.K., so I'll order-up replacements Monday).
Altogether, this was enough adventure for one day, so I gathered up what remained and departed with what little dignity I could still muster (and a still throbbing thumb - even now, hours later).
Did I learn something from all this? You betcha. I STILL love this thing, but I'm definitely gonna get some kind of suitable rest before wasting any more time or ammo, or risking further destruction to my poor old Oehler, which had never been treated so badly in all these years.
Be sure to tune-in for the next thrilling adventure! Coming soon! I hope. Sigh.
mhb - Mike

--------------------
Sancho! My armor!


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clark7781
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Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: Merkel .500 Observations, Continued. [Re: mhb]
      #38559 - 02/10/05 09:49 AM

In reply to:

I STILL love this thing




AMEN, Brother! AMEN! I love mine too!

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE


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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Merkel .500 Observations, Continued. [Re: mhb]
      #38560 - 02/10/05 10:09 AM

Sounds like fun


For what it's worth, I've done tremendous time in training with the black guns for 'standing varmint' shooting and hotrod competition from the holster.

Dry practice is good for setting protocol into the grain of your brain.
You know, drills such as presentation from low ready (weapon in the hands, butt into the shoulder, muzzles low) up to target then choose to shoot or not...
On that administration of deadly force choice, my dry practice would include a protocol for safety off and trigger finger to the trigger pad (or not).
The way back off of target acquisition would include a return to safe on the weapon if there were one, my dry practice also includes quick checks to the right and left for the possibility of more incoming threat or target possibilities. Shooting something, especially something like what you're shooting, will render you with tunnel vision and a conscious training protocol of breaking that tunnel vision with quick checks to the left and right after a shot give you a better chance of seeing what's around you (the *other* tiger or lion for instance...)
A few repititions of this each morning or night at a good safe backstop (got anything safe at home for that chambering?) on snap caps (sounds like you have some fired brass for that project) should do the trick.
Just be conscious of what you have your hands doing for each piece of motion in your protocols and discipline that safety thumb into proper action without live ammo.
Don't mean to sound like a schoolmarm, but it might save your life some day.

Or just some more meat off that thumb...


--Tinker



--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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mhb
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/05
Posts: 77
Loc: S.E. Arizona
For tinker; [Re: tinker]
      #38561 - 02/10/05 10:31 AM

FWIW, I'm an old-time (well, long-time) competitor in nearly any shooting discipline which burns powder (and some which don't), either black or smokeless. There's no doubt I've got conditioned reflexes, but they aren't so weapon- specific as all that. What I don't have programmed-in (yet) is the combination of effects derived from a top lever gun with really hefty recoil - I hadn't found it necessary up to this point to consistently remove my thumb from the tang area of any long gun, and, in fact, often leave my thumb there for preference (hold-over from the M14, I suspect). Most other long guns are more forgiving of that than the .500 Merkel. I do hunt and shoot with other top-slide safety guns, but not often with top-lever ones - at least the Merkel does have a non-automatic safety, so the safety doesn't re-apply itself every time the gun is opened. I'll get it, eventually, and, of course, painful lessons are among the best remembered.

--------------------
Sancho! My armor!

Edited by mhb (03/10/05 01:30 AM)


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Merkel .500 Observations, Continued. [Re: tinker]
      #38562 - 02/10/05 10:40 AM


IMHO, Dangerous game Double Rifles should not have anutomatic
safety's and if they do, they should be disconnected.

I do this with all of my DG DR's except where it is a collector's piece
(ie original untouched and I am not going to take it out).

500 Nitro



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MauserRifle
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Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 153
Loc: U.S.A.
Re: Merkel .500 Observations, Continued. [Re: mhb]
      #38564 - 02/10/05 11:21 AM

mhb

This is almost as good as a mimi series! I can hardly wait for the next episode of the continuing saga of this thrilling adventure!

Hang in there, it's bound to get better.

--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!


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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Merkel .500 Observations, Continued. [Re: MauserRifle]
      #38567 - 02/10/05 12:23 PM

In reply to:

Poster: MauserRifle
Subject: Re: Merkel .500 Observations, Continued.

mhb

This is almost as good as a mimi series! I can hardly wait for the next episode of the continuing saga of this thrilling adventure!





You are right there.

Tune in next week to see if Mike will find a regulating load or bleed to death first.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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mhb
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/05
Posts: 77
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Re: Merkel .500 Observations, for .500Nitro [Re: 500Nitro]
      #38600 - 03/10/05 01:35 AM

We are 100% in agreement on that. If the Merkel HAD come with an automatic safety, I'd have disabled it: the Merkel is NOT a collector's item (yet).
mhb - Mike

--------------------
Sancho! My armor!

Edited by mhb (03/10/05 02:01 AM)


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mhb
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/05
Posts: 77
Loc: S.E. Arizona
For MauserRifle and mickey: [Re: mickey]
      #38604 - 03/10/05 01:53 AM

Thank you for your kind words. I'll certainly keep up the program - Mikey's persistent, if not bright. I can't promise a weekly installment, as there will have to be a pause of as-yet undetermined length while I arrange a functional standing rest.
Thusfar, however, I humbly suggest that my researches have already produced at least one nugget of real gold, which may be universally applicable to similar rifles, and which I propose to call (dare I say it? Oh, hell, why not?!) - Mike's Rule of Thumb! :-)
mhb - Mike

--------------------
Sancho! My armor!

Edited by mhb (03/10/05 02:02 AM)


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: For MauserRifle and mickey: [Re: mhb]
      #38613 - 03/10/05 06:33 AM


Mike,

Love your installments, especially having gone through it myself !!!

If you can't make a standing rest use a car (preferably a 4wd) and lean over the bonnet.

One word of Caution - cover the bonnet with a non flammable blanket or piece of
canvas to protect the paint work.

Or use some Milk Crates or something to build up a ret for your forearm
until it is comfortable. These 2 ways will help.

Then practice without cartridges until you get the thu,b out of the way.

500 Nitro


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Geronimo
.275 member


Reged: 14/04/04
Posts: 83
Loc: Michigan,USA
Re: For MauserRifle and mickey: [Re: 500Nitro]
      #38625 - 03/10/05 09:24 AM

I use the Stoney Point tripod and just throw a bag of shot over it to steady it and to rest my hand on. Works like a charm.

Geronimo


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mhb
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/05
Posts: 77
Loc: S.E. Arizona
For 500Nitro and Geronimo: [Re: 500Nitro]
      #38632 - 03/10/05 10:45 AM

Thanks for the hints, guys. I'm determined to do this right - that means having a real standing rest with proper support for the forward hand, and, preferably, some support for the right elbow, as well as adjustment for height and angle - something like what is pictured in an illustration in W. W. Greener's book. I'll come up with something soon.
I've seen the effects from firing highpowered rifles over the tops of cars, so wouldn't try it myself. I've got Stoney Point rests available, but feel they are not sufficiently stable for serious work when you have so many variables in a new rifle and untried ammunition combinations, not to mention a horror of inadvertently shooting the bejeebers out of my poor old chronograph (again).
500: This side of the world, 'bonnet' is a style of lady's headgear - but due to my facility with dialects, I know you meant 'hood'. :-)
mhb - Mike

--------------------
Sancho! My armor!


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: For 500Nitro and Geronimo: [Re: mhb]
      #38634 - 03/10/05 11:04 AM

mhb,

IF shooting right handed,

The most important thing to rest is your Left forearm
but in addition I have found if you can LEAN into something
with your stomach and push your LEFT leg (thigh) against
something it makes you alot more stable acroos the board.

Hope this helps

500 Nitro



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MauserRifle
.300 member


Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 153
Loc: U.S.A.
Re: For 500Nitro and Geronimo: [Re: mhb]
      #38638 - 03/10/05 11:19 AM

mhb

Thanks a lot buddy! I guess we can kiss that segment of saga for the mini series good by. Here I was so looking forward to hearing about the poor old ladies roaming the streets Easter Sunday Mornig wondering what happened to their new EASTER BONNETS!

--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: For 500Nitro and Geronimo: [Re: MauserRifle]
      #38641 - 03/10/05 11:41 AM


I was ging to post something about
making sure the old lady wears ear muffs
while you shoot over her bonnet.....

what is the world coming to ?

500 Nitro


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MauserRifle
.300 member


Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 153
Loc: U.S.A.
Re: For 500Nitro and Geronimo: [Re: 500Nitro]
      #38642 - 03/10/05 11:57 AM

500Nitro

Beats me, OK, I'm bad, I admit it! I just couldn't resist. Thank God for a sence of humor as I am sure he knew I needed one after five years of surgery and rehalibation.

Life is too short to be serious all the time!

--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: For 500Nitro and Geronimo: [Re: MauserRifle]
      #38645 - 03/10/05 12:23 PM

Mike

I made a standing rest about a year ago. I've been meaning to set it up and take some pictures . I guess I should.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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mhb
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/05
Posts: 77
Loc: S.E. Arizona
For 500Nitro, Mauser Rifle and mickey: [Re: 500Nitro]
      #38677 - 04/10/05 12:24 AM

Thanks again, guys. Mickey: I'd certainly like to see your standing rest, and hope you can post some pictures - I'd like to make mine readily portable as well as stable, since the local range is about 15 miles away.
500 and MR: I'm very prone to attacks of attempted humor, I admit - I can't help it - it's an inheritance (curse?) from my mother's side of the family (the Irish Ryans) - the old devil coming out just to aggravate the dour and disapproving spirits of the rest of the ancestral mob; Scots Grays and English Moores and Bentons. So, I'll have to ask for your understanding and indulgence: I promise to get in all the facts (and without undue embellishment), but can't promise to be serious about it. :->
mhb - Mike

--------------------
Sancho! My armor!


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: For 500Nitro, Mauser Rifle and mickey: [Re: mhb]
      #38695 - 04/10/05 07:28 AM

mhb,

keep going the way your heading, it's good fun.

I'm one of those English you list (although converted
to Australian many yars back).

I'm the same, sick humour but it's worth it even if you
do offend the odd person, it's better than being
sensitive, new age, politically correct guy (SNAPCG)
all of the time !!!

500 Nitro


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Robgunbuilder
.275 member


Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 64
Re: Merkel .500 Observations, Continued. [Re: mhb]
      #38701 - 04/10/05 08:34 AM

I also have a .500 Merkel and find it shoots extremely well. I have only shot it off hand at 50 yrds and it cut a nice 2.5 inch group of both lefts and rights using superior ammo. It does kick a mite, but not bad. Seems like 570 gr woodleighs with 110grs of IMR4831 is a good load. I also just came accross a bullet mold from Buffalo Arms that throws a 600 gr, .512 bullet from pure linotype. I plan to work up a load with XMP5744 with it for those pesky baboons and plinking.-Rob

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Merkel .500 Observations, Continued. [Re: Robgunbuilder]
      #38702 - 04/10/05 08:38 AM


Do the 500 Merkel's have a Recoil Reducer in the Stock like
the Merkel 470's ?

500 Nitro


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mhb
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/05
Posts: 77
Loc: S.E. Arizona
For 500Nitro, re: recoil reducer/ w/update [Re: 500Nitro]
      #38741 - 05/10/05 12:51 AM

Damfino. I'll take the buttplate off and have a look - the rifle handles like it has something of weight in the butt (though it balances very well) - still, I had not heard that any of the Merkels came with a recoil reducer. I'll let you know what I find.
mhb - Mike


Later:
Well, I carried out an investigation to find out what, if anything, lies beneath the Merkel's buttplate. What I found could be described as 'recoil reduction devices', in the strictest physical sense (added mass in the rifle reduces recoil velocity and thereby, felt recoil). The contents were:
1. A lead slug, possibly cast in-situ in the top of the stock, diameter 15mm, length unknown, but possibly up to 8" or so, with a gap between the rear end of the slug and the buttplate of about 3/4". As there was no obvious means of removal, and the slug seemed fixed in place firmly (a good idea, given the recoil of the rifle, I can't say more about it.
2. A steel slug, .750" in diameter, and 7 1/8" in length, just below centerline of the stock, and retained in place by an oval steel plate at the butt end, with a metal screw through the plate into the slug, and a wood screw above the slug through the plate into the stock - an arrangement obviously intended, again, to prevent shifting under recoil.
The forward end of the slug featured an encircling O-ring (to locate the slug in the hole), and a counterbore which provided clearance for an Allen-headed bolt visible in the bottom of the hole (stock bolt?).

So, there is nothing in there which could be described as a modern 'recoil reducer', but the extra weight is both necessary and welcome (in my opinion). I'm gonna have to get a good, accurate scale so I can weigh the rifle - I am VERY curious to know just how much it does weigh.
mhb - Mike

--------------------
Sancho! My armor!

Edited by mhb (05/10/05 03:39 AM)


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clark7781
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Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: For 500Nitro, re: recoil reducer/ w/update [Re: mhb]
      #38745 - 05/10/05 05:50 AM

Mike:

I sent my .500 Merkel to JJ at Champlin's and he installed a recoil reducer and recoil pad. I loved the LOP, so I had him cut the stock to compensate for the recoil pad.

There is a noticable difference after installing this!

At the DRSS hunt, I held my .500 in one hand and jjs' .470 in the other and the .470 actually felt like it weighed more! In looking at the rifles next to each other, we guesstimated that Merkel uses the same exact barrels for both the .470 and .500 - with the .500 having more metal taken out of it for the bore diameter of the larger caliber. Because of this (the .470 having more metal in the barrels) the .470 weighed more. (This is just a human estimate and not based upon scale measurements.)

Also, 400NitroExpress at the DRSS hunt stated that he heard that the weight in the butt stock in some of Merkels came loose and could be heard jiggling around. I have not experienced this nor heard of it happening anywhere.



--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE


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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: For 500Nitro, re: recoil reducer/ w/update [Re: clark7781]
      #38754 - 05/10/05 10:15 AM

I agree with Clark I was at the DRSS hunt, and the 470 Merkel did weigh a little more than Clarks 500. Both Merkels shot very well. They looked good too.
PS Clark, the Texas Arbor Society has a warrant for your arrest issued. Shooting Trees in Texas is a crime.
You in a heap of trouble boy.
You comming to the DSC?
Can't wait till our next DRSS hunt.


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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: For 500Nitro, re: recoil reducer/ w/update [Re: mhb]
      #38757 - 05/10/05 10:47 AM

My Merkel .500 weighs 10 lbs. 3 oz. on my digital scales.

The steel bar in the throughbolt hole weighs 13 oz. to add weight and balance in the butt.

I don't know how much lead is in the other hole, as described by Mike, but it's there.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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