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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

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detoews
.224 member

Reged: 16/03/05
Posts: 12
Loc: San Antonio

Putting a DR back "on face"
#38317 - 28/09/05 08:34 AM

OK, here's a question for someone who knows more than I do on the subject of a DR coming "off face". What is the procedure for tightening up a DR which has loosened or come off face? Does this require adding metal to certain areas and then filing to get the action tightness back? Any ideas as to costs which might be involved? [3 figures or 4 figures]? Hoping someone might be able to shed a little light here and give me a little education.
Thanks in advance.

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mickey
.416 member

Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho

Re: Putting a DR back "on face" [Re: detoews]
#38322 - 28/09/05 08:54 AM

In reply to:

Poster: detoews
Subject: Re: Putting a DR back "on face"

OK, here's a question for someone who knows more than I do on the subject of a DR coming "off face". What is the procedure for tightening up a DR which has loosened or come off face? Does this require adding metal to certain areas and then filing to get the action tightness back?

NO It can and has been done. But their is a better way. Change out the hinge pin if possible. If not then look to adding a shim or refacing the hooks.

In reply to:

Any ideas as to costs which might be involved? [3 figures or 4 figures]? Hoping someone might be able to shed a little light here and give me a little education.
Thanks in advance.

Yes, depending on the quality of the job and the difficulty in matching the engraving etc.

I should also point out that if you are looking at a loose gun you had better have it checked out by an expert before 'making an offer'.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Peterb
.333 member

Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288

Re: Putting a DR back "on face" [Re: detoews]
#38331 - 28/09/05 10:24 AM

Some who do this are real butchers. If it is an English gun, have it done in England. Figure a cost at least $200, maybe $400. Sometimes a hinge pin can be replaced. Otherwise, a thin shim can be welded in place.

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NE450No2
.375 member

Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942

Re: Putting a DR back "on face" [Re: Peterb]
#38354 - 28/09/05 05:23 PM

J J Perodeau of Champlin Arms can do ANY work that is required on a double rifle.
www.champlinarms.com

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Putting a DR back "on face" [Re: Peterb]
#38357 - 28/09/05 06:21 PM

Can posters please put (AT LEAST) a country in their profile so we know where
you are from.

Peterb
Where can you get a DR re pinned in the UK for $200 - $400 ???

My preference is always to repin if needed (AND if this is the problem
as a gun can come loose for other reasons) but a Shim / Bearing
CORRECTLY done on the hook is my next preferred method.

As someone said, make sure you stay away from the butchers
- you get what you pay for with this work.

500 Nitro

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3489
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: Putting a DR back "on face" [Re: 500Nitro]
#38360 - 28/09/05 09:13 PM

The standard method for a rifle with fixed hinge-pin is to tig-weld and re-face the hook. Plenty of patience and lamp-black is required! Even chopper-lump barrels have been done this way, by relieving the brazing somewhat before welding. These days, the metal spraying techniques are gaining wide acceptance, but cannot be done at home.

I have only welded the hooks on SxS shotguns myself, 2 Cashmore sidelocks and a Boswell boxlock, but I wouldn't hesitate to do a double rifle if required. All it needs is care.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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SXS
.224 member

Reged: 17/08/05
Posts: 23
Loc: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Putting a DR back "on face" [Re: Marrakai]
#38366 - 28/09/05 10:16 PM

Marrakai has it nailed. Most Webley actions have a non removeable pin, and the hook must be built up and re fitted. This is best and most longlastingly done by either tig welding or "spray" welding. some of the spray weld compounds are very long lasting, and "slippery". Rifles with removeable pins can have a new pin made. Some, like Purdeys have a through pin, and the new pin should be engraved to do a correct job. Hollands, on the other hand, have pin covers, and a new pin is not such a big thing. I just did my "new" .500/450. It took about 3 hours to remove the old pin, and make a new one .005 in. larger. It took another 3 hours or so to "black down" the barrels.

I left the action tight until I fired 10 rounds, and then relieved the remaining tightness. Most "smiths would charge $6-800 US for this work. I hope this helps, SXS

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Rusty
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Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas

Re: Putting a DR back "on face" [Re: detoews]
#38380 - 29/09/05 02:25 AM

JJ Parodeau at Champlin's, Enid Oklahoma is very capable of and resonable in his pricing of putting doubles "Back on Face".

As I remember he charges $250 US for fixed pins and $350 US for removable pins. He did such a job for my buddy, David, last year on a Jeffery 475#2 Jeffery double. The turnaround time was within 2 weeks, his work was as always impeccable!

JJ is just that sort of guy. No BS just solutions!

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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Peterb
.333 member

Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288

Re: Putting a DR back "on face" [Re: 500Nitro]
#38439 - 29/09/05 12:54 PM

There are a couple of nasty ways butchers do this. Some will pean the pin pushing up metal in one spot while lowering it in another spot. Works for a short time only. Sandblasting will do the same thing. Variations on this abound.

Keith Kearcher also is one of the good guys. But what I have found is that if you ever send a gun to Britain, they will redo anything anyone else has properly fixed and recharge you for it. Now it costs money to send a gun to Britain. I do this to reproof shotguns after any barrel change such as lengthening short chambers. I always have other work done there as it is cheaper than in America. This includes removing barrel dings, rebrowning, refacing, reribbing, chasing engraving, etc. Now wood work I do myself except for checkering. That is done better in the US. The Continentals especially have no touch or respect for fine checkering. The Brits are better but still not as good as in the US. By the way, American Damascus shotguns should never be browned. There were all originally in the black and white. The late Oscar Gaddy was an expert at this. A friend studied under Oscar and will offer this soon, but not at the moment. If you have ever seen a 100% B&W, you would never want another fluid steel shotgun.

Now if you send your gun to a name shop, you will spend a name amount. Not my cup of tea.

Of course, if you have an original Lefever, you need not give it to anyone for refacing. There is a screw that you can tighten to reface by yourself. Yanks always have a better idea.

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Putting a DR back "on face" [Re: Peterb]
#38441 - 29/09/05 06:06 PM

Peterb

"Of course, if you have an original Lefever, you need not give it to anyone for refacing. There is a screw that
you can tighten to reface by yourself.

YANKS ALWAYS HAVE A BETTER IDEA"

If the Yanks built guns properly like the British then you wouldn't
need a screw that the owner can us to retighten the gun as the gun
wouldn't come loose so quickly !!!!

Anyway, wht you say is valid.

500 Nitro

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Peterb
.333 member

Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288

Re: Putting a DR back "on face" [Re: 500Nitro]
#38456 - 30/09/05 04:31 AM

Hehehe, I figured that would get some response. I wonder why no one else has ever copied that idea.

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39261
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Putting a DR back "on face" [Re: Peterb]
#68133 - 27/12/06 11:50 PM

BTTT. Christmas thread "spinner".

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Bramble
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Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England

Re: Putting a DR back "on face" [Re: NitroX]
#72565 - 27/02/07 01:07 AM

There is another way. If it is only a few thou to make up, find a company that can Industrial hard chrome plate. This is not like decorative plating it is used to build up the bearing housings for turbine engine and the like. Pal of mine used to get my stuff done out the back of Rolls Royce engine plant till it moved.
Still even if you have to pay for $100 or so they can build up the lumps and hook till you can put it back on face with no danger to the action. IHC is a molecular bond to the steel and is harder than the steel itself. They can immerse just the lumps or just the hook and mask off the rest etc so you can cure all types of jointing problems with a little forethought.
Never tried it on a worn chamber but thinking about it now as I am typing this, that might be possible also by plugging in front of the throat and then reaming afterwards with a carbide reamer.
I will make some enquiries about that I can see that being quite usefull in some situations, for a pitted chamber, ream it a little deep to clean up the pits, plate it to gain a few thou back and ream again to the correct depth???
Worth asking I think.

Regards

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: Putting a DR back "on face" [Re: Bramble]
#78735 - 16/05/07 11:49 AM

Quote:

There is another way. If it is only a few thou to make up, find a company that can Industrial hard chrome plate. This is not like decorative plating it is used to build up the bearing housings for turbine engine and the like. Pal of mine used to get my stuff done out the back of Rolls Royce engine plant till it moved.
Still even if you have to pay for $100 or so they can build up the lumps and hook till you can put it back on face with no danger to the action. IHC is a molecular bond to the steel and is harder than the steel itself. They can immerse just the lumps or just the hook and mask off the rest etc so you can cure all types of jointing problems with a little forethought.
Never tried it on a worn chamber but thinking about it now as I am typing this, that might be possible also by plugging in front of the throat and then reaming afterwards with a carbide reamer.
I will make some enquiries about that I can see that being quite usefull in some situations, for a pitted chamber, ream it a little deep to clean up the pits, plate it to gain a few thou back and ream again to the correct depth???
Worth asking I think.

Regards

Another alternative is Electroless Nickel plating. This process has an advantage in that it distributes a uniform coating of Nickel/Phosphorus on a complex surface - something that is problematic with electroplating. During a normal electroplating process, electrical potential is higher on sharp corners and edges; thus plating material builds up in those areas. Conversely, electrical potential is less in concavities; thus plating material is thinner there.

Electroless Ni/P has great friction and wear properties that would be ideal for hinge pins, locking bolts and chambers.

Anyway, I like electroless nickel!

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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.

Re: Putting a DR back "on face" [Re: Carpetsahib]
#82267 - 12/07/07 02:34 AM

Hum

I am reading all this with interest.....

A gun i know of is off face, and the only one which is affordable for me whilst being in the right caliber.

However, its a Jones' underlever gun.

Should have made all the guns on a Jones action........

Ben

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Anonymous
Unregistered

Re: Putting a DR back "on face" [Re: detoews]
#82277 - 12/07/07 04:58 AM

Ken Eversull has done quite a few for me over the years, as well as David Yale. Though Ken has a really neat process he uses to set the barrels back, were most of the work is done on the barrels. That is if the hook measures properly, and doesn't need messing with, which in most cases it does as well.

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