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Kiwi_bloke
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Ferlach reworked Mauser K98, but who was the gunsmith?
      #381576 - 27/12/23 01:04 PM

Let's see if the photos follow:

I'm trying to find out who in Austria made this custom rifle. There is no maker's name or even calibre marked anywhere on it, even detached from the stock. The scope mount may perhaps have covered up some info.

This rifle originally started life after the German occupation of Czechoslovakia in 1939. The receiver was marked DOU 44. This secret 3-letter code in 1944 stood for what was then called the Waffenwerke Brunn AG in Bystrica. At that time the occupied factory was making Mauser K98's for the German military until it was severely bombed in 1944. The original serial number 4023 and German markings on the receiver ring, along with the DOU letter code, were all subsequently filled-in and blued-over in the gun's new life in Austria, but with time they are faintly visible again. Where the king screw meets the action there's a Z inside a tiny circle which I presume stands for Zbrojovbka Brno.

It was typical for most Austrian custom gunsmiths to use surplus Mauser's after WW2. This receiver was then given the new serial number HS 135. It's tempting to speculate if the "HS" might mean Ferlach gunsmith Herbert Scheiring. Ferlach proof's in the form of an eagle and NPF (and "67") appear on the upper bolt handle and also on the action along with 315-67. I assume this means the 315th proof done in Ferlach in 1967. None of these markings are in the style of the Ferlacher Guild, 2 numbers, a dot, and then more numbers, so I have to presume this rifle's maker was not then part of the Guild. My requests to the Ferlach Proof Office for the original record details have so far gone unanswered.

The barrel fitted in Austria is .270 Winchester. The walnut stock is of the Bavarian cheekpiece style and the forend is Schnabel finished. The scope has both windage and elevation turrets and a duplex crosshair, (7A?). The previous owner was a chef working in Haast, New Zealand, whose father back in Austria brought it for him new as a going away present, apparently getting it directly from the gun-maker, a personal family friend. This rifle when traded had only ever fired 43 rounds which had accounted for about 20 red deer and chamois in the NZ Southern Alps.

It would be very interesting to know who the rifle's custom maker is, not least because this rifle will need to be registered here in New Zealand and a blank space for "make" will very probably fail to satisfy the bureaucrats! The very existence of the long-gun registry here is being reviewed in June 2024.













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Kiwi_bloke
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Reged: 03/09/09
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Re: Ferlach reworked Mauser K98, but who was the gunsmith? [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #381578 - 27/12/23 01:13 PM

Two more photos FYI:





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DarylS
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Re: Ferlach reworked Mauser K98, but who was the gunsmith? [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #381597 - 28/12/23 12:02 PM

Nice. I see 2,912fps. Is that with 140gr.?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Kiwi_bloke
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Re: Ferlach reworked Mauser K98, but who was the gunsmith? [Re: DarylS]
      #381609 - 29/12/23 06:23 AM

130 grain partition and Aliant Re22.

It's a 25,1/2" barrel, so getting satisfactory velocity is not a problem, especially compared to my 20" barrel 1959 Mannlicher-Schonauer which is very fussy about powders.

The two rifles are quite different in terms of what they accept as to cartridge Over-All-Length to fit the magazine. Also, bullets will fall out of the case before they touch the lands in the Ferlacher, (using an Over-All-Length gauge), so it is somewhat over-bored. But some 130 grain bullets loaded to max SAAMI length specs will stick into the lands in the Mannlicher chamber. So it is one to be careful with.


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Kiwi_bloke
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Re: Ferlach reworked Mauser K98, but who was the gunsmith? [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #381610 - 29/12/23 06:29 AM

The vendor, the second owner and friend of the first, claimed this rifle was made by J.F. Pammesberger & Sohn of Bad Goisern, Austria. However, when I asked how he knew this, he said that he'd found maker's marks confirming it. Nothing I've found is anything other than what I've described so I'm not sure how he came to this conclusion.

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sharps4590
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Re: Ferlach reworked Mauser K98, but who was the gunsmith? [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #381636 - 29/12/23 11:26 PM

If what you show is all there is, I didn't see anything resembling a makers mark. Maybe kudae will see or know something more.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6


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Igorrock
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Re: Ferlach reworked Mauser K98, but who was the gunsmith? [Re: sharps4590]
      #381650 - 30/12/23 06:30 AM

Quote:

Nothing I've found is anything other than what I've described so I'm not sure how he came to this conclusion.


Look carefully stocks "inside". There could be some markings too....

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


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kuduae
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Re: Ferlach reworked Mauser K98, but who was the gunsmith? [Re: Igorrock]
      #381685 - 31/12/23 08:08 AM

I take HS besides the serial number 135 as the initials of the real maker. Flintenkalle’s Directory has only 5 Austrian gunsmithes with those initials. As Herbert Scheiring would have used his Ferlach “house number” and 3 others were close to Ferlach, I would bet my money on Helmut Srugger in Gmunden. As a family tradition seems to point to a gunshop in Bad Goisern, a maker in nearby Gmunden is likely.
For registration purposes I would simply name Srugger as the maker, identified by his initials HS. Who could ever prove otherwise? Here in Germany countless prewar drillings are registered with “Suhl” or “Krupp” and any bolt actions wih “Mauser”as the maker.


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Kiwi_bloke
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Re: Ferlach reworked Mauser K98, but who was the gunsmith? [Re: kuduae]
      #381700 - 01/01/24 08:50 AM

Thanks Kuduae. I'm sure I could fudge the register, but it goes against my grain. My friends was told he couldn't register his Gevarm because no such gun exists! They're actually not that uncommon here either.

I'll ask the proof house again in the New Year, perhaps in German this time. But Helmut Srugger sounds very plausible.

With my Walter Roell rifle, a Mauser 98 in 5,6x61 SEvH, the proof house previously produced the original 1957 details with the same serial number on it. The name "Roll" was stamped below the stock line on the rifle action and my Mauser collectors book showed me he was head of sporting arms production at Mauser before 1945, so I guessed it would be him. He apparently continued to make up sporting Mauser's in his garden allotment where he had stored copious pre-war parts. It's a nice rifle, very subtle stock carving and accurate too. If there's a fire, it might be the first one I grab to save, if only because it would be hard to ever replace!

Thanks again.


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eagle27
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Re: Ferlach reworked Mauser K98, but who was the gunsmith? [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #381733 - 02/01/24 12:52 PM

Back in early 1982 I accompanied my German dentist friend and a fellow dentist colleague of his on a trip to Ferlach in Austria to test out a 20G shotgun he was having made by Scheiring specially for slugs and to collect a single shot rifle that had been completed by Scheiring. In those days it was Helmut Scheiring-Dusel running the business. We spent time at his place and then accompanied him to the famous Ferlach gun range to try out the 20g and single shot rifle. I cannot recall what calibre the rifle was but later on my friend used a Scheiring single shot out here in South Westland NZ where I lived at the time hunting feral goat, chamois, tahr and red deer and it was in 6mm Remington.

Prior to heading out hunting when sighting in the rifle the L shaped extractor actuator screwed to the water-table broke off. Bit of a flawed design as the head of the recessed retainer screw was too large leaving very little metal on the foot of the actuator. I made a new actuator and used a smaller countersunk screw head making a much stronger actuator. By the end of my friends four or so weeks of hunting here in NZ he had broken the stock at the wrist on the 6mm. He did score quite a few animals with the 6mm although gut shot a large billy goat one day and shot and killed the same billy a week later, none the worst for the earlier muffed shot.

We spent a day and a couple of nights in Ferlach and headed up in the nearby Alps for an evening shot on chamois to try out his new single shot. My friend was accompanied by a guide while his colleague and I hung out at the hut that was in the area.
We visited a couple of other gunsmiths while in Ferlach, had a look at a 600NE in the white at one of them. Very interesting old shooting range with 100’s of years of history and of course a privilege to meet Helmut Scheiring-Dusel and see his operation.

After leaving Ferlach my friend said that Helmut had invited us to IWA ’82 which was in March that year. IWA is only for those in the trade or their invited guests. It turned out a bit of a laugh as when we got to the IWA trade fair in Nurnberg on the opening day my friends had forgotten their invitations and couldn’t contact Helmut Scheiring as he was already inside at the Ferlach stand. I had a NZ Gun Dealer’s Licence at the time so went and signed in as being in the trade and then invited my friends as my guests.

Unfortunately cannot help to shed any light on the OP’s original question


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Kiwi_bloke
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Re: Ferlach reworked Mauser K98, but who was the gunsmith? [Re: eagle27]
      #381760 - 04/01/24 07:17 AM

Thanks to Kuduae's excellent help, I think we might have the makers name; Helmut Strugger. He was based in Bad Goisern, Austria, which seems to be where the rifle was both made and purchased by a friend of the gunsmith's family, then given to a son as a going away present when he moved to New Zealand, (to work as a chef in Franz Josef township in Westland).

I'm following up a lead that could help finally settle this in a few days time. But for the moment, this is the only gunsmith with "HS" initials in this area. Photo follows.


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Kiwi_bloke
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Re: Ferlach reworked Mauser K98, but who was the gunsmith? [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #381761 - 04/01/24 07:30 AM





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Kiwi_bloke
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Reged: 03/09/09
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Re: Ferlach reworked Mauser K98, but who was the gunsmith? [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #382485 - 12/02/24 01:55 PM

It's claimed by the vendor, (the original owner, who's somewhat old now, seems to back this story), that this rifle was made by J.F. Pammesberger & Sohn of Bad Goisern, Austria. However, there is next to no information available about this maker that I can find. Does anyone know this maker?

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Kiwi_bloke
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Re: Ferlach reworked Mauser K98, but who was the gunsmith? [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #382486 - 12/02/24 02:05 PM

I was a little quick off the mark. I just spotted that Kuduae had sent me a message reading, in part:

"That directory has just one gunsmith, Josef Pramesberger in Bad Goisern, mentioned in 1955.Though Pramesberger is a frequent name in that area, there is no gunshop Pramesberger in Bad Goisern any more".

Perhaps known to some of the forum? I'm also following up with a possible relation, also a master-gunsmith, of the same surname.


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