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mhb
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/05
Posts: 77
Loc: S.E. Arizona
Merkel .500 - observations
      #38226 - 27/09/05 01:13 AM

I said in my previous posts that I would share whatever findings I developed in working-up my new Merkel .500NE.
So...
The rifle is the plainest grade, but fit, finish and workmanship are quite good (it's not a London Best, but it didn't cost as much, either), the barrels are well-struck, nicely polished without ripples or lumps, and the ribs are square, even and properly proportioned. Sights are very good: my personal preference is for square post fronts and corresponding notch rear sights. Finish of both metal and wood is good: very workmanlike. After my misadventures with the Pedersoli Kodiak .45-70 rifles, my first concern was for the quality of the barrels used in assembling the Merkel - I expected them to be good and they are - though the groove diameters are larger than the nominal .512", and run around .514" (I am unable to give the actual groove diameter at present because I do not have the means of measuring directly in odd-numbered groove schemes, except 3-groove).
The rifle came complete with brass (Rigby HS, but almost certainly made by Bertram), bullets (Woodleigh SP and solids), dies, etc., so I was able to load ammunition right away (and remind myself the hard way that I MUST get a press with greater vertical opening - the old Rockchucker won't do for cartridges this large).
So, I loaded the A-Square manual's recommended starting load of IMR4831 (actually, WW2 surplus 4831) - 109 grains, and went to the range this Saturday.
Saturday was not really a good day for testing a new rifle at the local range: it was windy, with gusts up to about 30MPH. Also, though I know very well that double rifles should be shot from a standing rest, supported only by the hands, I have not had time to fabricate a suitable one, so ended up shooting over the top of a folding chair atop one of the concrete benches, with a couple of folds of old carpet padding the chair back. All this should be taken as evidence of just how eager I was to actually shoot this rifle.
Having placed a target at 50 meters (the regulated range), and loaded both barrels, I rested the rifle (grasped in my left hand) atop the chair and carpet, waited until the gusts of wind moderated, flicked-off the safety, and watched the sight picture wavering across the target (well, not too much) while squeezing the front trigger: BOOM! I had gotten the first shot off, and made an urgent mental note to myself: 'when shooting top-lever rifles of significant recoil, DO NOT leave the thumb resting atop the safety!). After a short pause to push the shattered part of my thumbnail back into place, and stop the bleeding, I fired the left barrel - my concentration was not entirely what it should have been: the first shot struck at exactly the level of the point-of-aim, and about 1" left of center, while the second shot struck some 2" higher, but also 2" left.
I set the rifle aside and had a talk with myself about the insignificance of a throbbing thumb (and waited until it wasn't throbbing quite so much - about 15 minutes) before essaying further shots.
The second pair (right and left) struck at about 1" right of center, level with point-of-aim, and directly at 6 o'clock and 1/2" high. A few minutes later, I fired one further shot (right barrel), which struck 1" into the black and about 1/2" right of center.
Given the unsuitable conditions (ALL of them), and intending to save ammunition for better, more controlled testing, I called it a day. But, I had demonstrated sufficiently for myself that the rifle does shoot well, is properly regulated, and is great fun to shoot (recoil, while greater than my .458, is not brutal - it wouldn't have hurt my feelings had Merkel put a good recoil pad on the rifle, but since they didn't, I made-do with three of the insert pads stuck in my Rigby vest - that worked quite well.
On balance, my first impression is: I LOVE THIS THING!
I'll keep you all informed of future shooting (including cast bullets, when I can acquire suitable ones).
mhb - Mike

--------------------
Sancho! My armor!


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Merkel .500 - observations [Re: mhb]
      #38241 - 27/09/05 03:55 AM


mhb

Great report.

Interesting how you say "On balance, my first impression is: I LOVE THIS THING!"

Even though I love and own English DR's, that's exactly what I felt after shooting
my Merkel !!!

FYI, when I get a new DR, the first time I ever fire it, I suggest you just shoot it
Standing Unsupported at some piece of dirt a couple of times. It gets you used to
the triggers and stops you getting a flinch as mentally you have tamed it already.

Anyway, great review and thanks.

500 Nitro


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MauserRifle
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Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 153
Loc: U.S.A.
Re: Merkel .500 - observations [Re: mhb]
      #38248 - 27/09/05 09:32 AM

mhb

Thank you for the detailed report on your Merkel. I found the report very interesting as I am also looking at purchasing a Merkel. I would appreciate hearing more on your rifle, especially concerning fit, finish, quality and how the rifles regulates.

I would appreciate knowing your feelings as to how your Merkel compares to other doubles in the same price range that you are familiar with!

Take care of that thumb!





--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!


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mhb
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/05
Posts: 77
Loc: S.E. Arizona
For MauserRifle [Re: MauserRifle]
      #38250 - 27/09/05 10:40 AM

I'm glad you found my experiences of some interest. I think I said all I can say about the fit, finish and quality of the Merkel when I characterized it as 'workmanlike' - this is about as close as I can come to wild hyperbole in complimenting anyone's rifle as a mechanical/craftsmanship product. The standard-model Merkel is not built for the carriage trade, but for honest use, and no amount of prettying-up the finish would make it a better rifle in those terms. As a barrel maker and riflesmith, I approve of the Merkel (with the single proviso that I do not believe it is acceptable to deviate from the industry standard in bore and groove diameters, and, as I noted, the Merkel's grooves are larger than that standard - in fact, common European practice notwithstanding, I can think of no valid reason for the modern barrel maker to make any barrel with groove diameter larger than the standard projectile) - but, in this case, so long as the rifle regulates and groups well, I'll live with it. I will continue to share my findings as I shoot the Merkel in future.
As to my feelings on comparably priced doubles: I am not entitled to an opinion, having had none to evaluate - but... after talking with Searcy , I think it likely that, had I not gotten the Merkel, I'd have had them build one for me.
Still, based on my experience so far, I can and do recommend the Merkel wholeheartedly - I do not think you would be disappointed.
mhb - Mike

--------------------
Sancho! My armor!


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MauserRifle
.300 member


Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 153
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Re: For MauserRifle [Re: mhb]
      #38254 - 27/09/05 11:13 AM

mhb

Thank you for the reply and information, it was greatly appreciated. I have been thinking about buying either a Merkel, Searcy, Heym or Krieghoff double rifle for some time. As they are very inexpensive I was not sure about the quality of these rifles. The Merkel has the most eye appeal in my opinion as they seem to have the lines of the more expensive doubles. IMO, their high end shotguns are very nice pieces.

I have located a used Merkel in 470 that looks close to new, outside of a few handling marks and the gentleman and I are close on price. For this reason I was interested in your findings with the Merkel you purchased.

Again thank you and keep everyone up to date on your findings.



--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!


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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: For MauserRifle [Re: MauserRifle]
      #38286 - 28/09/05 12:33 AM

In reply to:

As they are very inexpensive I was not sure about the quality of these rifles. The Merkel has the most eye appeal in my opinion as they seem to have the lines of the more expensive doubles. IMO, their high end shotguns are very nice pieces.





MauserRifle, Where are you located? I happen to have a couple of Merkel S/S double rifles,a 9.3X74R, and a 470NE, and if you are near, you would be welcome to handle, and shoot both if you'd like. That will give you a better take on the way the rifles handle and shoot, as well as a look into the fit, and finish you can expect! Either PM, or E-mail me if you have a problem posting your loaction publicly. My E-mail address is in my profile!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: Merkel .500 - observations [Re: mhb]
      #38291 - 28/09/05 02:07 AM

mhb:

Great post. The first time I shot my Merkel .500 I went to a public range close to Fredricksburg, VA where you could only shoot off the bench.

Well, I wasn't too happy about that, but wanted to shoot the gun anyway so I waddled up to the bench, uncased the monster and metally prepared for the ride of my life.

When the right barrel went off all heads turned towards me.

What a rush!

I aimed again and touched off the left barrel and immediately took a large chunk of flesh out of my right index finder. The SOB bled for about 30 minutes.

8 more rounds went off down range and I loved everyone trigger pull.

I have been using Superior Ammo mostly because I haven't found the time yet to work up a load with the new baby and family and professional obligations.

It shoots well thus far with SA bullets but I know it can do better.

I want to the DRSS hunt this past April and had a great weekend with the other guys shooting doubles, hunting hogs and drinking. During that trip my .500 bagged a nice Texas Tree (it was charging me so I had to show it who was boss) and took out a nice Texas jackrabbit at 43 paces.

Yes, the Merkel is a plain jane one, but in my opinion it has some of the better grain flow in the stock than other Merkels I've seen. It is "streamlined" and I like it that way - I feel like I can really grasp the grip better.

I've had JJ at Champlins install a recoil reducer and pad after the DRSS hunt and it is more pleasant to shoot.

The next double is a Searcy which hopefully will be at SCI and DSC early next year with Butch.



--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE


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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: For MauserRifle [Re: MauserRifle]
      #38292 - 28/09/05 02:09 AM

MauserRifle:

What part of the USA are you from? If you are anywhere Washington, DC, IM me so we can get together and shoot my howitzer.

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE


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MauserRifle
.300 member


Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 153
Loc: U.S.A.
Re: For MauserRifle [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #38295 - 28/09/05 02:43 AM

DUGABOY1

Thank You kindly for the offer to shoot and look over your Merkel, I really appreciate the offer. I have not checked to see where you are form yet, but I will almost bet we are far apart as I am presently living in central Missouri, where I am close to nothing. Hopefully by the end of the year, I will be able to move back to civilization!

--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!


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MauserRifle
.300 member


Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 153
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Re: For MauserRifle [Re: clark7781]
      #38296 - 28/09/05 02:50 AM

clark7781

I wish to express my sincere thanks to you also for offering me the opportunity to handle and shoot your rifle also. Unfortunatly, we are too far apart. Again, my sincere thanks.

--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!


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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: For MauserRifle [Re: MauserRifle]
      #38313 - 28/09/05 07:57 AM

Thank you sir! If you ever find yourself heading through the DC area, let me know and we'll see what we can do!

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Merkel .500 - observations [Re: mhb]
      #38316 - 28/09/05 08:26 AM

MHB - about your rifle's bores.
: Is seems common, I guess, that the European's make groove Dia. oversize with deeper than nnormal rifling. My .6.5 is that way, yet it shoots Barnes"X" bullets well, even though they shouldn't shoot in the loose groove dia. When close to standard (I thought that was .510", not .512") the bore's dia. is very important as the deeper the rifling, the more bullet material is moved. O'course, you probably already know that. When shooting such large charges, any blow-by from loose fit might be very bad for the chamber throats, especially with 4831.(very hot burning)
: I wonder if you could start and use a 1/10" card wad between powder and bullet. Would that not help if there is blow-by? Perhaps this isn't necessary as you might not be shooting many thousnads of rounds. Any wad must be HARD up against the bullet, not down on the powder if not a compressed load.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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mhb
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/05
Posts: 77
Loc: S.E. Arizona
For Daryl_S [Re: DarylS]
      #38323 - 28/09/05 08:57 AM

Yes, the Europeans have held on to traditional bore and groove dimensions which no longer make mechanical sense, and, in my experience, often seem to think that if some oversize is good, more must be better. The industry standards for the .500 Nitro, per the references available to me are: bore .500", groove .512", bullet .510" (the Woodleighs I have hold fairly close to this, measuring .5103" for the SP and .5098" for the solids).
My experience with more modern (read: high-velocity) calibers is that jacketed bullets .002" - .003" under groove diameter shoot quite acceptably well (but not to be compared to full groove-diameter bullets, other factors being equal).
Blow-by is inevitable with undersized bullets, and undesireable, but, in cartridges like the Nitro-express types, which operate at (relatively) lower pressures, will probably not lead to significant erosion during a reasonably long service life. With the slower, cooler-burning propellants currently used (as opposed to the original Cordite), barrel life should be GREATLY extended.
And I can't agree with your characterization of 4831 as very hot burning - it is a single-base, coated, progressive powder, and one of the slower ones commonly used. Under the loading conditions present in the Nitro-express rounds, it burns rather cooler, and at the lower end of the pressure spectrum suitable to the powder type (indeed, somewhat below the originally intended pressure range).
I agree with A-Square's reasoning that, for reloading these cartridges, the best powder choices available to the modern handloader are the slow, bulky ones which obviate the need for any kind of wad or filler, being compressed when the bullet is seated - And I don't personally think that most card or fiber wads are any good as gas seals, while they are suspect in regard to pressure excursions and, possibly, occasional damage to the chamber or bore - best to do without them.

--------------------
Sancho! My armor!


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
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Re: For Daryl_S [Re: mhb]
      #38325 - 28/09/05 09:12 AM

I wasn't aware of the 'standard' as being .512, as .50 cal barels I see listed by makers here, are .510". I'm assuming the .512" is normal with double rifles or the Express rounds. I am unused to using bullets not exactly bore size.
: I do agree with 4831 being immensley cooler than cordite, but compared to most powders I use today, it 'is' hotter burning - but perhaps only when used in it's desired pressure ranges in the small bore magnum ctgs. like the .300's. In those, the ball powders are much cooler burning but due to their not being generally usable in straight cases, they aren't used in the express rounds. My straight cased .458 2" shot extremely well with H335 powder & 510 gr. Solids at 2,050fps, matching my best results with stick powders. I don't know of one suitable for the 3" .500 Nitro, though.
; I've had good results with large bore straight cases and card wads, but,as I stated, they must be under the bullet.


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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mhb
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Reged: 20/09/05
Posts: 77
Loc: S.E. Arizona
Re: For Daryl_S [Re: DarylS]
      #38328 - 28/09/05 09:37 AM

Note that I didn't say that the standard groove diameter for .50 caliber barrels is .512": the CIP standard for the .500 Nitro is established at .512", and that is the industry standard FOR THIS CARTRIDGE. The usual standard for current cal. .50 barrels is .510" groove diameter, and, as a custom barrel maker, if asked to make a '.50 caliber' barrel, unless the customer advised that it was for some specific cartridge or requirement which called for another groove diameter, that is what I would make - in fact, if I made a pair of barrels for a .500 Nitro to furnish to, say, Searcy for use in building a rifle for myself, the groove diameter would be .510". But, as a maker of true custom barrels, all parameters are variable to the user's requirement (within the mechanical limits of my equipment, and what I consider safe, or good practice).
I think you might be surprised at the actual burning temperatures of ball powders in high-pressure loads: they are heavily deterrent coated, but are typically double-based, and, if there is any real difference in the erosive effect of ball powders versus stick powders, in ballistically equivalent loads, I've never seen any evidence of it - and I've spent nearly as much time peering at the ends and insides of rifle barrels as a gyneco... errr... proctologist does in examining the orifices and, umm, plumbing which constitute his area of expertise.

--------------------
Sancho! My armor!


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cr500
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Reged: 11/10/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Singleton ,Australia
Re: Merkel .500 - observations [Re: mhb]
      #38352 - 28/09/05 04:22 PM

I,m glad you liked it. My next double will be a 9.3x74 ,then a 500NE once I get a payout. I was looking at the Merkels as I like there style. (OK I realy would have loved a H&H royal model deluxe ,but hey). I wasnt so much after a realy fancy gun ,but did want one which at least looks nice and works perfectly.

Has anyone let of 1000s of shots from there Merkel? How are they holding together?


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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Merkel .500 - observations [Re: cr500]
      #38370 - 29/09/05 12:30 AM

In regard to the robustness of the Merkle, I have shot in the neighborhood of six to seven hundred rounds through my .375 H&H without any signs of looseness.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: Merkel .500 - observations [Re: cr500]
      #38374 - 29/09/05 01:46 AM

I've only put about 150 rounds through my Merkel .500 NE and the Greener Cross Bolt is still tight and doesn't go all the way in without me pushing on the tang.



--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE


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srose
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Reged: 30/09/05
Posts: 139
Loc: North Carolina
Re: Merkel .500 - observations [Re: mhb]
      #38459 - 30/09/05 05:55 AM

Loved your observations on the 500. That a neat trick with the thumb on the safety,haven't tried that one. I shoot a Greifelt 500 NE and it is a thumper. I use IMR 3031 in it at 78 grs with a 570 gr bullet. Recoil is less than with IMR 4831. Also shoot a 450 gr LBT cast bullet with about the same load and its very pleasent to shoot. Regulates perfect. One other tip is to use 5.5 inch shoot and see targets when shooting a double at 50 yds. I find that me sight just covers the bull. Makes me shoot better.
I have a Merkel in 9.3X74R that I like a lot also.

Good Shooting.

Sam


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