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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2387
Loc: Melbourne Australia

A Working Rifle (Of sorts) in 404J by Westley Richards
#382126 - 25/01/24 07:55 AM

https://www.westleyrichards.com/theexplora/classic-format-westley-richards-404-magazine-rifle/

Matt

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There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1414
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA

Re: A Working Rifle (Of sorts) in 404J by Westley Richards [Re: Waidmannsheil]
#382127 - 25/01/24 11:55 AM

I like it, much more to my taste than the over embellishment that one sees in bespoke guns and rifles of late.
.404 Jeffery, a great vintage calibre too.
Were it mine I’d like somewhat less figured wood, seems to me that would be a bit less worrysome if actually used for hunting?

Still a spectacular effort paired with a .318

- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4915
Loc: Woodford Qld

Re: A Working Rifle (Of sorts) in 404J by Westley Richards [Re: 3DogMike]
#382128 - 25/01/24 01:42 PM

Great looking rifle, not too ornate. I do like the colour case hardening look. The grain flow in the wrist is almost what you want/need. If it were mine-unfortunately it never will- I would replace the stock with plainer timber and one with the grain flow continuing through the wrist into the butt. That is just me. Would I knock it back if somebody gave it to me, not bloody likely and the stock would soon have marks from hard use.

Edited by Rule303 (25/01/24 01:44 PM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26513
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: A Working Rifle (Of sorts) in 404J by Westley Richards [Re: Rule303]
#382130 - 25/01/24 01:48 PM

Were it mine, I would use it and nothing else for all my hunting in B.C.
To have a rifle like that would start me champing at the fall hunting season all over again, with the first frost.
Of course, full power ballistics would not be quite necessary.
I could very easily "get by", with 2,150fps with the 400gr.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3987
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: A Working Rifle (Of sorts) in 404J by Westley Richards [Re: DarylS]
#382137 - 25/01/24 07:28 PM

What a cracker!
In rifle as well as calibre!
Very nice indeed

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39247
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: A Working Rifle (Of sorts) in 404J by Westley Richards [Re: 93x64mm]
#382140 - 25/01/24 11:14 PM

Very nice. Not even near a working rifle. Just not over embellished like the usual WR works.

I wonder who wrote the WR Eplorer article? A Diggory article?

2,150 fps for a 400 gr .404 Jeffery is not the modern velocity. It's the original velocity. The modern velocity would be 2,350 fps.

The .404 Jeffery also did not become "obsolete" in the 1960s. How is a rimless .423 calibre cartridge producing a velocity greater than a .416 Chatfield-Taylor, greater than a .450/400 NE, greater than a .416 Remington Magnum, near a .416 Rigby be obsolete?

More correctly ammunition became hard to source just like all the Nitro Express cartridges and similar era cartridges.

Very nice usable rifle by WR. A .404 and a .318, two excellent vintage cartridge choices for medium and big and dangerous game. A classic safari armoury, a wise client with class.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DarylS
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Re: A Working Rifle (Of sorts) in 404J by Westley Richards [Re: NitroX]
#382146 - 26/01/24 04:22 AM

Quote:

Very nice. Not even near a working rifle. Just not over embellished like the usual WR works.

I wonder who wrote the WR Eplorer article? A Diggory article?

2,150 fps for a 400 gr .404 Jeffery is not the modern velocity. It's the original velocity. The modern velocity would be 2,350 fps.

The .404 Jeffery also did not become "obsolete" in the 1960s. How is a rimless .423 calibre cartridge producing a velocity greater than a .416 Chatfield-Taylor, greater than a .450/400 NE, greater than a .416 Remington Magnum, near a .416 Rigby be obsolete?

More correctly ammunition became hard to source just like all the Nitro Express cartridges and similar era cartridges.

Very nice usable rifle by WR. A .404 and a .318, two excellent vintage cartridge choices for medium and big and dangerous game. A classic safari armoury, a wise client with class.

I am/was aware of the 2,350fps. I would, if I owned that rifle, use a charge that gave decent accuracy and 2,150fps as those ballistics are quite pleasant to shoot.
I have "data" for the .416 Taylor, of 400gr. at 2,400fps & the .416 Rem, of 2,500fps with the same weight bullet.
The only problem I see, is the .423" bullet diameter. A set of swage dies + a sizing die for .429" cast bullets would fix that.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand

Re: A Working Rifle (Of sorts) in 404J by Westley Richards [Re: DarylS]
#382148 - 26/01/24 01:17 PM

The velocities quoted at various times for the 404 Jeffery cartridge are a bit of an enigma. One could say there was no 'original' or specific velocity for the 400gr load for the 404J.

The early Kynoch load for the 400gr bullet had a velocity of 2,125fps, this was later increased by Kynoch to 2,225 fps with either a pasted paper warning on the packets of five rounds or an actual printing on the packets to re-sight rifles previously sighted for the old cordite load. For whatever reason when Kynoch resumed manufacture of ammunition in later years to present, their 404J ammunition was loaded back to the 2,125fps level (28" barrel).

The old catalogue entry for the 'New 1905 Model' Jeffery rifle indicated that 400gr ammunition can be had loaded with old cordite to 2,200fps or the new flat strip high velocity cordite to 2,400 fps.

I have seen published ballistics for an early DWM load giving 2,400fps. The old RWS load was 2,330fps with their modern loading for the 400gr Soft Nose being 2,312fps as the conversion from their published figure of 705m/sec.

I still have a few Norma loaded (circa 60’s?) Parker Hale factory rounds for my 404, with a MV of 2,245fps.

So despite the early Kynoch load of 2,125fps being oft quoted as a sort of standardised loading for the 404 Jeffery cartridge, there were always other manufacturers producing ammunition in the early and mid 1900’s that put the 404J up into the same class as the 416 Rigby and 425 WR. Of course the Brits probably didn't want to know about the German loadings back then.

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39247
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: A Working Rifle (Of sorts) in 404J by Westley Richards [Re: eagle27]
#382152 - 26/01/24 05:35 PM

Lovely well made rifle.

Funny the article hints some of the exhibition grade might not be good choices on WT big bore rifles they display.

The use of the 2,100 fps to 2,150 fps velocity as the current modern velocity is pretty much writers looking up information on the internet for their articles, not actual real users.

BTW is Kynoch ammunition still being produced? I thought it was defunct?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroX
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Re: A Working Rifle (Of sorts) in 404J by Westley Richards [Re: NitroX]
#382160 - 27/01/24 12:37 AM

Quote:

We finished number 43719 in October 2023, as the second of a pair of rifles in different calibres. Its sister rifle is a .318, finished earlier this year

Have we seen this .318 rifle?

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4915
Loc: Woodford Qld

Re: A Working Rifle (Of sorts) in 404J by Westley Richards [Re: NitroX]
#382179 - 27/01/24 08:37 AM

Quote:

Lovely well made rifle.

Funny the article hints some of the exhibition grade might not be good choices on WT big bore rifles they display.

The use of the 2,100 fps to 2,150 fps velocity as the current modern velocity is pretty much writers looking up information on the internet for their articles, not actual real users.

BTW is Kynoch ammunition still being produced? I thought it was defunct?

I do not know about currently but Bruce Bertram was making brass for them 10 years ago. I had some, so head stamped for the 416 Rigby.

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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand

Re: A Working Rifle (Of sorts) in 404J by Westley Richards [Re: NitroX]
#382181 - 27/01/24 09:40 AM

Quote:

Lovely well made rifle.

Funny the article hints some of the exhibition grade might not be good choices on WT big bore rifles they display.

The use of the 2,100 fps to 2,150 fps velocity as the current modern velocity is pretty much writers looking up information on the internet for their articles, not actual real users.

BTW is Kynoch ammunition still being produced? I thought it was defunct?

The Kynamco company website, who produce Kynoch ammunition, is still live and on Wikipedia they say that Kynoch is still producing in a smaller capacity. There is also an image on Wikipedia of a packet of Kynoch 600NE cartridges with the caption saying ".600NE produced by Kynamco Ltd in 2023. The packaging has had the same styling since 1936."

I think they have, or had, difficulty getting stockists of Kynoch ammo in the USA which I imagine would be the largest single market for ammunition for the old NE cartridges and there is now competition from USA manufacturers too. Kynoch's time maybe limited.

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