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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1813
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Mauser Guild Rifle?
      #381153 - 12/12/23 11:08 AM


I have been asked by someone for advice about a recently Purchased Mauser and replied that I really don't know much about them (my focus has been on der Mannlicher Schoenauer, particularly pre WW2 models).

The Mauser's new owner had difficulties posting images and asked if I would do so on his behalf.

Hopefully Kuduae and / or other members can chime in with answers to his inquiries regarding proofs and such. Here is what has been emailed to me:



sir

may I presume upon your knowledge?
I recently acquired a Mauser in 9.3x62- it is pre-war 11, and in nearly new condition; it needs to be re-stocked

the receiver has a solid sidewall; the entire rifle is beautifully engraved, with very good blueing and a mint bore

don't understand the proofmarks- the Crown over N I know, and the Crown alone is ok, but the number under the proofs is a mystery- 172/28; at first i thought perhaps number and year of proof, but the Lee kennett article, in the 1975 Gun digest, page 186, claims that these numbers represent calibre 7.62. i measured the bore and it is definitely 9.3 mm or .366 inches not 7.62. Any idea?

I could not see a proof house mark- there are 2 circles with cogged perimeters and two letters in the circle that look like
JG or TC; could these be the elusive intertwined ZM for Zehla-Mehlis? They do not look like any of the standard pre-1940 proofhouse marks including the heart and upside down fir tree for Zehla-Mehlis
At the end of the long name on the barrel" Schwarzel Hoff" there is an emblem that looks like an N with two SS vertically beside it

will send along some images

any help will be appreciated

thank you

don Tarasoff
Sidney BC

did you know that martin hagn passed away from cancer about 10 days ago?

Images:























thinking about my new pre-war mauser the next question is the scope bases; the Redfield and Leupold twist off bases do not fit the front ring recess
any idea of suitable bases?

maybe a general problem and perhaps post on the forum; the oval ring is about 0.55 inches wide and 0.38 in high

thanks

don









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fjrdoc
.300 member


Reged: 20/05/22
Posts: 177
Loc: United States
Re: Mauser Guild Rifle? [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #381156 - 12/12/23 10:06 PM

Beautiful action and barrel. Was the action ever stocked?

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3987
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Mauser Guild Rifle? [Re: fjrdoc]
      #381157 - 12/12/23 10:32 PM

Very nice piece indeed!
Shame it doesn't come with the original scope, EAW may be able to help or NEC perhaps?

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12tar
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Reged: 07/01/14
Posts: 44
Loc: sidney bc
Re: Mauser Guild Rifle? [Re: 93x64mm]
      #381160 - 12/12/23 11:51 PM

i DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS STOCKED; i GOT IT RECENTLY WITH A VERY CRUDELY INLETTED bISHOP STOCK.
MY GUESS IS THAT IT WAS STOCKED WHEN MADE, THEN PERHAPS THE STOCK WAS BROKEN, AND IT PUT AWAY FOR A LONG TIME AND NEVER USED. iT IS IN BEAUTIFUL CONDITION
NOW i AM LOOKING FOR A STOCK FOR IT; IT WOLD BE EXPENSIVE TO HAVE A STOCK MADE

dON

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12tar
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Re: Mauser Guild Rifle? [Re: 12tar]
      #381162 - 13/12/23 12:00 AM

THERE IS A MATCHING ENGRAVED OVAL, PROBABLY BLACK HORN, FOR A PISTOL GRIP BASE ON THE STOCK. SO IT WAS PROBABLY STOCKED ORIGINALLY

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1775
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Re: Mauser Guild Rifle? [Re: 12tar]
      #381181 - 13/12/23 07:56 AM

This rifle is quite enigmatic.
The barrel was made and proofed in Suhl. The Ks in ratchet are marks of a then barrelmaker, Klett. As the CROWN – crown/N proofmarks show, it was proofed using the pre-WW1 “4000 atm Special Proof Powder”. As the bore/land diameter is still marked with an old gauge number, it was proofed before 1912. But as the gauge number 172,28 stands for a diameter from 7.62 mm = .300” to 7,87 mm = .310”, it was originally proofed as an 8x57I. As it is in 9.3x62 now, it was rebored and rerifled sometime, but not properly reproofed afterwards.
The large ring action without a thumbhole is of much later, most likely post-WW2 make, Zastava or Sta.Barbara. It lacks the prescribed proofmarks on receiver ring and bolt handle root, as well as the pre-WW1 service load informantion. Can you post photos of any markings on the underside of the receiver? The engraving seems to be quite “new” to me too.
The signature “Schwarzel Höffen” is in modern letters. I never heard about that name. As Höffen is a village near Lohmar, home of the upgrade gunmaker T. Jung https://manufakturtjung.de/en/ I will ask them about Schwarzel soon. Maybe one of my gunmaking friends in that area can shed some light?
The scope bases are for a modern, less than 30 years old, pivot mount by either Recknagel or EAW. Fitting tops may be available through NECG.

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12tar
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Reged: 07/01/14
Posts: 44
Loc: sidney bc
Re: Mauser Guild Rifle? [Re: kuduae]
      #381191 - 13/12/23 03:10 PM

kudae
thank you for taking the time to explain the origins of this rifle-essentially an old re bored
barrel on a post-war modern receiver, unproofed, with lots of engraving.

i examined the receiver carefully and only found a small mark on the right side just above the front screw. it looks like a small circle with a backwards s in the circle.

i sent an image to rothhammer, which includes the pistol grip cap. the backwards s in a circle is also shown in one of the above pictures

sincerely

don

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wjw
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Reged: 05/06/10
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Re: Mauser Guild Rifle? [Re: 12tar]
      #381193 - 13/12/23 03:58 PM

The trigger guard/floorplate is identical to a unit sold for a time by Tradex and was said to be made for European Parker Hale rifles - the unit was said to be a casting. Had one in the shop three or four years ago.

Bill

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12tar
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Reged: 07/01/14
Posts: 44
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Re: Mauser Guild Rifle? [Re: wjw]
      #381194 - 13/12/23 04:35 PM

I read that Parker Hale used spanish Santa barbara receivers; that makes sense

i am not a judge of engraving; is this good engraving or lipstick on a pig?

opinions, please

Don

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12tar
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Re: Mauser Guild Rifle? [Re: 12tar]
      #381196 - 13/12/23 05:03 PM

if the floorplate and trigger guard are cast, I assume they are not engraved

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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
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Re: Mauser Guild Rifle? [Re: 12tar]
      #381197 - 13/12/23 05:14 PM

Quote:

kudae
thank you for taking the time to explain the origins of this rifle-essentially an old re bored
barrel on a post-war modern receiver, unproofed, with lots of engraving.

i examined the receiver carefully and only found a small mark on the right side just above the front screw. it looks like a small circle with a backwards s in the circle.

i sent an image to rothhammer, which includes the pistol grip cap. the backwards s in a circle is also shown in one of the above pictures

sincerely

don



Images sent from 12tar:







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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1813
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Mauser Guild Rifle? [Re: kuduae]
      #381198 - 13/12/23 05:59 PM

Quote:


The signature “Schwarzel Höffen” is in modern letters.



Just an observation, but to my eyes the Schwarze, HOFFN (n under SS stamp), and perhaps also the L are different fonts and, perhaps, impressed at different times?



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justcurious
.333 member


Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 285
Loc: Germany
Re: Mauser Guild Rifle? [Re: 12tar]
      #381201 - 13/12/23 08:40 PM

Quote:

kudae
thank you for taking the time to explain the origins of this rifle-essentially an old re bored
barrel on a post-war modern receiver, unproofed, with lots of engraving.

i examined the receiver carefully and only found a small mark on the right side just above the front screw. it looks like a small circle with a backwards s in the circle.

i sent an image to rothhammer, which includes the pistol grip cap. the backwards s in a circle is also shown in one of the above pictures

sincerely

don



Schwärzel in Höfen ( Monschau / Eifel ) was a riflemaker , who als made rifles for Eduard Kettner .

His reputation was not very high.

Sometimes he worked with proofhouse in Belgium .

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1775
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Re: Mauser Guild Rifle? [Re: justcurious]
      #381212 - 14/12/23 04:40 AM

That curved Z in a circle is a trademark of Zastava, Kragujevaz, Serbia, the big Yugoslavian arms and automobile company. The version they mounted on some of their cars:


The ebonite gripcap with oakleaves was a common German guntrade generic type. Made pre-WW2, such parts can still be found in many gunshop drawers, in new condition.

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12tar
.224 member


Reged: 07/01/14
Posts: 44
Loc: sidney bc
Re: Mauser Guild Rifle? [Re: kuduae]
      #381213 - 14/12/23 05:38 AM

Fortunately i did not pay much for this rifle
good lesson, all that glitters is not gold

thank you Kudae

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Mauser Guild Rifle? [Re: 12tar]
      #381221 - 14/12/23 10:22 AM

Oh I dunno...
Maybe just not 24 carat

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
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