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bulldog563
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Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California

DR in 500 Jeffrey?
#45299 - 30/12/05 03:29 PM

I was watching Dangerous Game on OLN tonight and Doug McNiel carried a DR in 500 Jeffrey. Is this a suitable DR cartridge? If so why haven't I seen more DR's chambered for it as it is an impressive round with 500 grains going 2400fps(what the program said).

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: bulldog563]
#45306 - 30/12/05 08:40 PM

Its the old story!! AGAIN!!! The most popular DR cartridges for DG are FLANGED!!!

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
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500grains
.416 member

Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA

Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: bulldog563]
#45312 - 31/12/05 12:57 AM

Are you sure it was a 500 Jeff? Perhaps someone missspoke. Perhaps it was a DR by Jeffery in 500 NE.

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kino
.224 member

Reged: 05/10/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Utah USA

Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: 500grains]
#45314 - 31/12/05 01:30 AM

The gun was Jefferys boxlock. It looked like 500 N.E. the cases were flanged, but the show called it a 500 Jefferys with a 500 gr. bullet.

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500grains
.416 member

Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA

Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: kino]
#45323 - 31/12/05 03:39 AM

Sounds like a typical talking head error.

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bulldog563
.400 member

Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California

Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: 500grains]
#45356 - 31/12/05 09:32 AM

I thought it was fishy. I saw the cases were flanged and thought that the 500 Jeffrey was not flanged but wasn't sure and then they said a 500 grain bullet going 2400fps.

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
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Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: bulldog563]
#45365 - 31/12/05 10:18 AM

Could be that someone has got it wrong in the description however............
A bit over a year ago there was a double for sale in the USA which was advertised as something like "500 Jefferies Rimmed (or flanged)".
Note the spelling "Jefferies" which was theirs not mine.
There was a thread on this forum at the time asking about the description and another member said it could be a 500 flanged Schuler.
Cannot remember the thread title or the dealer but it could have been cabelas or griffen & howe.
I think Hatari Times had done an article on that particular cartridge which is very rare but does exist.

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bulldog563
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Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California

Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: 4seventy]
#45366 - 31/12/05 10:21 AM

They did use Jefferies and not Jeffrey on the show.

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kino
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Loc: Utah USA

Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: bulldog563]
#45376 - 31/12/05 12:05 PM

Can't remember the exact wording, but OLN usually replays the show early about 05:30 MST on Saturday.

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grandveneur
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Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1297
Loc: France / Germany

Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: kino]
#378845 - 24/08/23 03:00 AM

DR in 500 Jeffery, under no circumstances !

The cartridge 500 Jeffery is for use in a bolt action rifle, for the real aficionados only with a Mauser action, Magnum if possible. Due to its design with a rebated rim, it is not suitable for a DR anyway.

There is a good alternative, the cartridge 577/500 Hartmann & Weiss.

https://cartridgecollector.net/cartridge/577500-hartmann-weiss/

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3987
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: grandveneur]
#378848 - 24/08/23 06:06 AM

How does the 577/500 Hartmann & Weiss then compare to the 500NE?

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jvw
.300 member

Reged: 15/05/08
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Loc: Australia

Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: 93x64mm]
#378850 - 24/08/23 07:43 AM

Westley Richards made 1 (one) double in .500 Jeffery way back when. Last time I heard, it was in a collection in Canada. Still only the one, as far as I know. The chances of it ending up in a PH in Africa's hands isn't good.

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grandveneur
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Loc: France / Germany

Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: jvw]
#378855 - 24/08/23 03:52 PM

Quote:

How does the 577/500 Hartmann & Weiss then compare to the 500NE?

570gr Bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2300 fps

Therefore a ballistic above that of the cartridge 500 Nitro Express and more in the class of the cartridge 500 Jeffery.

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1414
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA

Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: grandveneur]
#378877 - 25/08/23 07:37 AM

Found what you guys may have been talking about?

Was advertised on Guns International awhile back.
Mahillion double in what was called .500 Jeffery Rimmed. Apparently uses a .577 basic case sized with a .500 Jeffery die and trimmed to length.
No longer listed.

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NitroX
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Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: 3DogMike]
#378887 - 26/08/23 01:18 AM

Quote:

Found what you guys may have been talking about?

Was advertised on Guns International awhile back.
Mahillion double in what was called .500 Jeffery Rimmed. Apparently uses a .577 basic case sized with a .500 Jeffery die and trimmed to length.
No longer listed.

That's interesting. Resizing a .577 NE with a .500Jeffery die.

Is this unique, or the same as the .577/500 Hartmann & Weiss.

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grandveneur
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Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: NitroX]
#378894 - 26/08/23 02:58 AM

I known the cartridge 577/500 Hartmann & Weiss for years, but I don't know its history, particularly how it was designed.

I have also never read a report about their use for hunting in Africa.

Hartmann & Weiss are very well-known gunsmiths in Germany but of the very upscale class and that's why the corresponding prices and the years of waiting for a rifle.

Westley Richards seems to know more about it.

https://www.westleyrichards.com/theexplo...-nitro-express/

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: grandveneur]
#378896 - 26/08/23 03:42 AM

interesting, there are 3 different 577/500 now

http://old.municion.org/

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grandveneur
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Loc: France / Germany

Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: lancaster]
#378900 - 26/08/23 03:04 PM

Where 577/500 Hartmann & Weiss and 577/500 N°2 Nitro Express appear, according to Westley Richards, to be the same cartridges.

"The .577/.500 No2 calibre in nitro format was a cartridge introduced by Hartman and Weiss who made some single shot falling block rifles in this calibre. The original cartridge was a black powder version which was introduced sometime before 1879 this was then developed in various formats including Nitro for black and fullNitro load with a variation in bullet weight of from 300 grains up to 570 grn, The nitro version for our rifle used the 570 grn. bullet and we think the velocity was around 2300 fps. It was a powerful round and the rifles weight of 14 lbs. compensated for this."

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lancaster
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Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: grandveneur]
#378901 - 26/08/23 03:36 PM

this is clearly not true, compared with the two older blackpowder express cartridges the H&W looks like on stereoid

I take a look if its was sized by using a 500 Jefferys or 505 Gibs die set but this is not the fact. its a complete unique case.

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grandveneur
.400 member

Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1297
Loc: France / Germany

Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: lancaster]
#378906 - 26/08/23 04:37 PM

According Westley Richards, I have no informations about the history of the cartridge 577/500 Hartmann & Weiss.

I just tried to reshape a case caliber 577 Nitro Express using a die for the cartridge 500 Jeffery. It does not work because the case quickly gets stuck in the die. I think that you need special tools for something like that.

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1414
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA

Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: grandveneur]
#378923 - 27/08/23 07:26 AM

Quote:

…….
I just tried to reshape a case caliber 577 Nitro Express using a die for the cartridge 500 Jeffery. It does not work because the case quickly gets stuck in the die. I think that you need special tools for something like that.

Indeed that must have been bad information about the .577 NE brass being used because I measured each and the .577 base is very much larger in diameter than the base dimension of the .500 Jeffery.
Interesting rifle, seems like shootable brass would be a huge problem.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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grandveneur
.400 member

Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1297
Loc: France / Germany

Re: DR in 500 Jeffrey? [Re: 3DogMike]
#378928 - 27/08/23 04:58 PM

I find all these newer rimmed cartridges caliber .510 very interesting for someone who wants to buy a new DR.

The caliber 510 remains a highly interesting caliber for a DR because the ballistic advantages of the caliber 458 are combined with the power of a cartridge 577. A good compromise.

I am also a big fan of DR , but unfortunately see their use nowadays very limited compared to a bolt action rifle with a scope. I have repeatedly written on various Forums that if you want to hunt with an DR, you have to adapt the hunting to your weapon. Opinions are very divided, it is a topic in itself. Nevertheless, there are two DR in my gun safe, but for which I have little use.

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