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dotchicco
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Reged: 16/11/16
Posts: 135
Loc: ITALY
9,3x64 Brenneke. Iron fist in velvet glove.
      #346467 - 03/11/20 09:15 AM

Gentlemen,
I'm glad to share my last article.
Hope you enjoy.

https://mauserfanatic.wordpress.com/2020/10/30/756/

If you like you can follow our Facebook group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1100509527013603/?ref=share

Doc.

Edited by dotchicco (03/11/20 09:16 AM)


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 9,3x64 Brenneke. Iron fist in velvet glove. [Re: dotchicco]
      #346471 - 03/11/20 11:16 AM

Quite a comprehensive article and coverage of many different weights and makes of bullets.
Well done.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39249
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Re: 9,3x64 Brenneke. Iron fist in velvet glove. [Re: DarylS]
      #346475 - 03/11/20 11:47 AM

Doc, Thanks very much for posting your latest article.

I am going to let others comment first. The first half of the article needs some comments.

The second half, on the loads and ammo is a nice round up pf personal observations.

Thanks for posting.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3987
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 9,3x64 Brenneke. Iron fist in velvet glove. [Re: NitroX]
      #346488 - 03/11/20 11:05 PM

Great article Doc!
Yes the 9.3x64 can do lighter loads as well, the 270gn Speers are very accurate at 2100-2200fps & flattens deer & pigs - exits are common!
I achieved factory specs with the 293gn TUG of 2570fps, that wasn't too bad accuracy wise either.
My rifle is far more accurate than I can shoot, the RWS ammo clocked 2640fps Average in my rifle & they were in a touching cluster at 50m; (not me shooting those) so yes they really are a super round.
Shame you only did the heavier Woodleigh protected points, the 286gn ones get just over the 2630fps with a deviation under 10fps.
I only use AR2209 for the heavier loads & AR2208 for the lighter 270gn loads.
I have tried the Woodleigh Hydros (Mk1's) which unfortunately didn't feed well at all, there is now a Mk2 out now which has a protected cap & should feed much better - alas I haven't tried these yet!
Please keep up the good work on this fine old cartridge mate, if there is enough call for it then we will hopefully get a major company beside Voere to chamber this magnificent old round.
Cheers


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MichaelSchwarz
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Loc: Germany
Re: 9,3x64 Brenneke. Iron fist in velvet glove. [Re: 93x64mm]
      #378351 - 04/08/23 10:42 PM

Thank your for sharing this wonderful article!

Just bought a Voere Voehrenbach 9,3x64, like new, and I am considering a medium powerded solution for African thin skinned animals like Hartebeest and Oryx. I guess an 250 grain bullet should travel with 2.000 ft/sec at 200 m, as this is my hunting distace limt. What is your proposal?

Mit vorauseilendem Dank und Waidmannsheil

Edited by MichaelSchwarz (04/08/23 10:44 PM)


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grandveneur
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Re: 9,3x64 Brenneke. Iron fist in velvet glove. [Re: MichaelSchwarz]
      #378353 - 04/08/23 11:04 PM

Sure, The cartridge 9,3x64 Brenneke has proven itself worldwide for hunting heavy game species.

Shooting on game at longer range is also possible, especially with the heavy 19g TUG bullet, and when it comes to hunting PG in Africa, a 250gr bullet will surely working well, provided that it is not too soft.


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3987
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 9,3x64 Brenneke. Iron fist in velvet glove. [Re: grandveneur]
      #378365 - 05/08/23 05:50 AM

Michael
you should still be able to get the RWS 293gn TUG's & 286gn solids for the 9.3x64mm.
https://rws-ammunition.com/en/products/centerfire-rifle-cartridges#filterForm
Just looked then - no solids available now!
The TUG is an old bullet design, designed by Herr Brenneke himself & still more than capable of doing plains game anywhere.
If you are able to reload then the brass is exceptionally good, being able to be reloaded many times.
Voere make great rifles - lovely pick up mate!


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grandveneur
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Re: 9,3x64 Brenneke. Iron fist in velvet glove. [Re: 93x64mm]
      #378370 - 05/08/23 06:52 AM

In summary, it is a very good cartridge for hunting heavy game species, also conditionally usable for larger game such as buffalo, for example. In the latter case cartridges with FMJ bullets must be available, cartridges that need to be reloaded because no longer available nowadays.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: 9,3x64 Brenneke. Iron fist in velvet glove. [Re: grandveneur]
      #378421 - 06/08/23 04:15 PM

I'm always a bit surprised by Docs use of Conepoints/KSs. I haven't used them that much but found them a quite soft bullet.

Which is a pity. The 300 gr KS in RWS .375 H&H loaded ammo in my Whitworth M98 shot at a very fast speed for a .375 H&H Mag with a shortish barrel. I forget, maybe 2700 fps? Or more? My usual Woodleigh Weldcore 300 gr is only 2,350 fos from handloads. And the 300 gr KS RWS loaded ammo made a tiny 3 shot one hole group at 100 metres.

I don't usually use .375 factory ammo.

But why a .375 300 gr KS? I wouldn't use it for buffalo or eland. If choosing a specific plains game projectile, I'd go for a 270 gr or 250 gr. I actually just use the 300 gr Woodleigh RN for everything.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 9,3x64 Brenneke. Iron fist in velvet glove. [Re: NitroX]
      #378424 - 06/08/23 04:32 PM

Doc proudly espouses his choice of cartridges. Good for debate!

I disagree on an armchair basis on his comment that the .404 Jeffery Mauser rifles were only for the rich. I think this is confusing the .404 with the .416 Rigby. The Rigby required a proper Magnum sized action. The .404 does not. It fits a standard action though with some modification.

The M98 .404 was the issue firearm of some British East African colonial parks, wildlife services. I think Uganda for sure. Maybe Kenya and Tanzania? I don't think they were expensive rifles, rather more utilitarian.

The .375 H&H Mag requires a longer action. However my Whitworth M98 is a standard action. Loading cartridges into the magazine does require a down and rearwards action. Something I neglected to tell JB when he borrowed my rifle for a buff hunt. In the heat of a hunt, an unfamiliar awkward loading can mean delays. I also load the projectiles to fit the magazine. I use 300 gr Woodleigh Weldcore RNSPs and FMJs. I was thinking of using protected points ... they might not fit well?

However that might be moot, as most .375 H&Hs were probably H&H rifles in the first half of the 1900s. So price may have been an issue. Certainly if we looked at a Purdey, H&H, WR, or Rigby today compared to some other offerings, the price differential is a big factor.


Historically let's look at some dates of introduction, or design dates:
.404 Jeffery - 1905;
.416 Rigby - 1911;
.375 H&H Magnum - 1912; & the baby
9.3x64 - 1927.
The 9.3x62 was released in 1905.

A considerable time lag in between. One would hold the copy would show improvements! I think it's biggest advantage is fitting into more normalised actions easier. Performance wise there isn't any real difference between the 9.3x64 and the .375 H&H Magnum. The huge advantage of the .375 H&H May is it is the most widespread "big bore" cartridge on Earth. And if your ammo goes missing, it might be purchasable compared to not a chance for the x64. And of course actually be able to buy a rifle chambered for the .375. On safari the .375 calibre is often the minimum for dangerous game. Fact.

It is true the Brennecke bullets were great improvements. The bias in Africa to FMJ or "solid" bullets was no doubt created by the failure of many early SP expanding bullets. Today not an issue if a hunter does his research and chooses a controlled expanding projectile suitable for the game hunted.

I've liked the idea of a 9.3x64 for forty years or more. But have no need of one already having a .375, .404 etc. Perhaps if a barrel was available for my Mauser M03 rifle. Was the x64 ever available in the M03? Having a .404 barrel, do I need one? No. I tend today to wanting to hunt more, and spend less on more guns collecting dust in the safe.

Docs articles are usually good value. Strong opinions. Actual use of the cartridges and rifles. What an excellent article used to be like, not an advertising list like most are today.


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (06/08/23 05:15 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 9,3x64 Brenneke. Iron fist in velvet glove. [Re: NitroX]
      #378433 - 06/08/23 06:10 PM

Don't miss Docs other article linked on this article:

https://www.norma-ammunition.com/en-gb/n...m-a-love-affair

9,3 mm – A love affair
My love affair with the 9,3 mm started years ago. I was looking for a double rifle, that had to be good for both driven hunt and stalking, and my choice was the old venerable 9,3x74R.

I immediately started handloading this fine caliber with N202 powder, obtaining good accuracy and outstanding terminal effects on big game. Season after season i learned how effective was the old German doctrine: heavy soft point bullets at mild velocity equals complete penetration, massive wound and game on the ground. And this at its best in woods.

The Next step was a nice Stutzen rifle chambered in 9,3x62. With its short barrel practically duplicates the 9,3x74 performance, with a remarkable preference for light bullets. I usually hunt with this rifle using the 232 grains Norma Oryx. Roe deer, wild boar, fallow deer, all have fallen by the lightweight Oryx.

Now is evident to every experienced hunter that both 9,3x62 and 9,3x74R are more than enough for anything walking on the old continent and north America. And they are adequate for most African big game.

During the golden age they both have been used on the big five with success by farmers, hunters and guides, and more. Today, with better bullets better powders, you can squeeze more velocity, energy and terminal performance from these old beloved workhorses.

So why the hell a European hunter that has never hunted outside Italy should ever buy a heavy, expensive, vintage and beautiful rifle chambered for the big bad son of Wilhelm Brenneke? The answer is: Because it exists!

Jokes aside, the 9,3x64 cartridge can match .375 H&H’s performance if handloaded properly, with the fine benefit that .366 bullets always have better sectional density and ballistic coefficient than .375 of similar weight.

You can find dozens of different kinds of bullets, from 180 up to 325 grains of weight. All these advantages in a normal length action, in a cartridge that is just one millimeter longer than 30-06, with a roomy tough brass that is perfect for the modern slow burning powders.

Continued on link: https://www.norma-ammunition.com/en-gb/n...m-a-love-affair

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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dotchicco
.300 member


Reged: 16/11/16
Posts: 135
Loc: ITALY
Re: 9,3x64 Brenneke. Iron fist in velvet glove. [Re: NitroX]
      #378849 - 24/08/23 06:28 AM

Gentlemen,
I'm really happy that you find so interesting my work.
Last year I wrote another article about heavy bullets available for big game in .366.
I hope you will find answers to some question in it.

More will come in winter,I'm now working with 250 grains for plains game.

Hope you enjoy..

https://mauserfanatic.com/2022/07/30/max-weight/

Edited by dotchicco (24/08/23 06:32 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: 9,3x64 Brenneke. Iron fist in velvet glove. [Re: dotchicco]
      #378859 - 24/08/23 07:16 PM

Quote:

Gentlemen,
I'm really happy that you find so interesting my work.
Last year I wrote another article about heavy bullets available for big game in .366.
I hope you will find answers to some question in it.

More will come in winter,I'm now working with 250 grains for plains game.

Hope you enjoy..

https://mauserfanatic.com/2022/07/30/max-weight/




Thanks Doc. I shared your article for you.

Maximum Weight by Dotchicco - 9.3mm

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=378737&an=0&page=0&vc=1


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (24/08/23 07:18 PM)


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