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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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LGF
.275 member


Reged: 27/04/05
Posts: 76
Loc: Kenya/Berkeley, CA
Lethal Ball
      #378209 - 31/07/23 10:12 AM

Can anyone supply information on lethal ball rounds?

I want to thank 85lc (Roy) for pursuing the Jeffery records and sending me the daybook entry for my Jeffery 12 bore boxlock shot and ball gun, made in 1931 by Harry Leonard. I bought this at H&H in London years ago and the salesman told me that it had been in India before returning to the UK and being restocked. It has 32” barrels, 3¼” chambers, sideclips, two folding leaf sights marked 50 and 100, and according to the records was originally choked ¾ and full. At some point it was opened to ¼ and ½ and I shoot sporting clays with it every week.

As Roy mentioned in his thread on the Jeffery records, some of the handwriting is not clear and it took me a while to puzzle out one entry, which reads "leaf sights for lethal ball".

A little googling produced a long thread on Lyon and Lyon on the DoubleGunshop BBS from 2010. Pete Mazur contributed this: https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubb...amp;type=thread, containing the following:

‘The firm [Lyon and Lyon] invented their "Lethal Ball" shotgun bullet which was made for them by Kynoch. This bullet was introduced to compete with Rodda's "Rotax" bullet, Manton & Co's "Contractile" bullet, and Holland & Holland's "Paradox". These bullets were for use against dangerous soft-skinned game. The Lethal Ball could be used in cylinder or choked barrels or barrels with Paradox type rifling. It was spherical and made of two (later four) soft iron discs interlocking at right angles. These were placed in a mould into which the lead was poured. On impact, the lead pieces became detached from the iron frame. The bullets were not accurate over anything but very short range mainly because they were undersized (about 16 bore) in order to cope with choke and rifling (similar ammunition was issued to the Home Guard in the Second World War).’

If the H&H salesman was correct in saying that this gun came back from India, and as Lyon and Lyon was a Calcutta firm, it might have been built for a customer there who specified that it should be set up for lethal ball. I shot slugs out of it once when it was new to me but don’t remember the distance or group size.

Any further information or speculation on lethal ball would be welcome.

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85lc
.375 member


Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 915
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: Lethal Ball [Re: LGF]
      #378213 - 31/07/23 09:49 PM

Laurence,

Thank you for the very kind words and for the information on the "Lethal Ball".

I found a great article on the use of the Lethal Ball i=on line in AfricanHunting written my Major Khan. The article is here: https://www.africahunting.com/threads/a-gun-which-lasted-a-career-a-life-time.54231/

Perhaps someone with the technical abiolity to post pictures will copy and post Major Khan's article as it has some interesting pictures.

--------------------
RB

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Nemo
.224 member


Reged: 16/06/23
Posts: 25
Loc: Wisconsin
Re: Lethal Ball [Re: 85lc]
      #378226 - 01/08/23 04:56 AM

Here are the 2 ICI Eley posters from that article relating to "Lethal" ball ammo.
I figured they were the best quality and most interesting of the bunch.
Some of the hunting photos are almost illegible.


Looking at the construction of those "Lethal" and "Destructor" balls, it strikes me
that trying to reproduce them would be a serious challenge.
Could be done but only by someone at the top of the casting field.

--------------------
Nemo -- Everything 44

Edited by Nemo (01/08/23 05:02 AM)

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85lc
.375 member


Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 915
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: Lethal Ball [Re: Nemo]
      #378268 - 02/08/23 09:08 AM

Nemo, Thnks for posting these pictures.

Both the "Lethal" and "Destructor" balls appear very deadly.

--------------------
RB

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Nemo
.224 member


Reged: 16/06/23
Posts: 25
Loc: Wisconsin
Re: Lethal Ball [Re: 85lc]
      #378290 - 03/08/23 05:06 AM

Not a whole lot new under the sun when it comes to fragmenting bullets.

I wonder if anyone played with sub-calibre sabot slugs in those days.
They obviously didn't have the plastics we now do but they were also just as inventive as anyone else.
I have used those in my Beretta O/U and they can be very accurate (and deadly).
I had bought "paradox" rifled chokes for it but ended up not needing them.

--------------------
Nemo -- Everything 44

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