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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Any big bears taken with a double?
      #56939 - 11/05/06 11:57 PM

I have been looking at booking an Alaskan brown bear hunt. The outfitter I am thinking of going with says that most of his clients are older and opt to sit on a rock on the beach waiting for a bear to come out. They shoot their bears at 150 yards.

However, he says that the oldest and wisest bears stay up in the hills where his clients almost never go. Further, he says that it is pretty easy to sneak up to within 20 yards of a bear munching on berries if the wind is right.

To me that sounds like a perfect recipe for using a big bore double.


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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: 500grains]
      #56944 - 12/05/06 01:08 AM

I have taken my 450/400 to Alaska twice. Once for caribou, killed 2, the second time for brown bear, did not get a shot.
I have killed one black bear with it and 2 black bears with my 9,3 double.

I say go for it.


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DPhillips
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Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 819
Loc: Alaska
Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: NE450No2]
      #56956 - 12/05/06 04:01 AM

I don't have all the information about this picture, but the hunter was Will Gay and the bear was taken in 1997 on Uminak. The bear is the 8th largest on record. The rifle, the person knowing most about the hunt, thinks, is a Army Navy sidelock underlever 450.

More details:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=846760&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1&nt=5


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5276
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Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: 500grains]
      #56971 - 12/05/06 08:39 AM

I had the good fortune to take two black bears in northern British Columbia in May, 2005. They were taken with my .300 Win. Mag. double rifle. Each was a one-shot kill at about 75 yards.

One was jet black in color:



The other was a very nice cinnamon:




Curl




--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: CptCurl]
      #56987 - 12/05/06 12:08 PM

Bob Cussack guides out on the Pennisula. He uses a 9.3x74R and a 470 as back up rifles.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: mickey]
      #57001 - 12/05/06 02:10 PM


I spoke to an Australian hunting agent about a Kamchatka (splg?) brown bear hunt and also about using my 9.3x74R double (Valmet/Tikka) as the rifle.

He stated it was not advisable as the action might freeze up.

Myself I have no idea about this as heat and sand is usually more of an issue here than snow, sleet and ice. Cold!

Except for that possible problem I would have thought a double plus or minus .400 would be pretty ideal.

What do our Northern Hemisphere hunters here think?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #57015 - 12/05/06 07:55 PM


NItroX

I know from the Military we used to use Special Oils
and Grease that had a much lower freezing point
on guns to stop them freezing.

500 Nitro


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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #57037 - 13/05/06 01:54 AM

I believe I'd use a light weight acrtic grease and oil before going IF it were sub freezing. The white moly lithium grease should be fine. I've used it at -75 F (chill factor of -100) up north and it still pumped thru a grease gun for lubeing a truck. There are many different arctic grade oils that should be fine.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand


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Arctic
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Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 87
Loc: Arctic Canada
Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: AkMike]
      #57091 - 13/05/06 06:28 PM

I've taken both grizzlies and black bear with doubles, no problems, and think they're the "cat's meow" for bear situations and hunting. As far as the cold being a problem, it's not. Your only problem could be keeping the snow off as it would melt and then freeze. My cure has been a leather cover over the action as used on flintlocks. ~Arctic~

--------------------
"A stranger is a friend we haven't met!"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: Arctic]
      #57976 - 30/05/06 03:50 AM

If you were hunting say black bear, what sort of other game could you expect to hunt at the same time? I guess it would depend on the locality so please specify where and when in the year as well.

If you had the opportunity to travel to the US and hunt, would you hold off on hunting black bear for brown bear, or is the black bear a great trophy in itself?

Thanks.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Boomer
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada
Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: 500grains]
      #58012 - 30/05/06 09:52 PM

Considering the cost of a double rifle, and considering the wet climatic conditions in coastal Alaska and BC - particularly if you choose to hunt and stalk in thick wet cover as opposed to sitting on a stand - I'd consider reconsidering.

By the way - you and your gear will probably be wet and cold during the entire adventure. I'm not trying to dissuade you in the least - just trying to pass along a realistic assessment of the conditions you are likely to encounter. In addition to the rain and snow, when the wind whips up, the air will be heavy with salt spray from the sea water - you can taste it, and see it on your clothing and equipment. My rifle was built for these conditions, at less than a tenth of the prices I've seen quoted for doubles.

However, if packing the double is intrinsic to the enjoyment of your hunt - bring a couple of cans of WD-40 and have at her.

--------------------



Edited by Boomer (30/05/06 09:53 PM)


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Classic416
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Reged: 08/09/06
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Loc: Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: DPhillips]
      #65693 - 11/11/06 10:40 PM

G'day, I know bugger all about bears. Is the size of this bear proportionally accurate; with regards the size of the guys in the photo. It appears as though it could take their heads and half the shoulders in it's jaws and still have room leftover for desert. Is this a Grizzly or Alaskin Brown or something else? Do you know what it's weight was?
Thanks, Ted


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: Boomer]
      #65706 - 12/11/06 04:06 AM

I believe we have one or two members who have used their doubles, a .450/400 I believe on Alaskan Brown Bears. A 400gr .400 SP at 2100 fps certainly would be good close cover medicine.





--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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vapodog
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Reged: 28/12/04
Posts: 237
Loc: Nebraska USA
Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #66167 - 02/12/06 07:17 AM

Quote:

If you were hunting say black bear, what sort of other game could you expect to hunt at the same time? I guess it would depend on the locality so please specify where and when in the year as well.

If you had the opportunity to travel to the US and hunt, would you hold off on hunting black bear for brown bear, or is the black bear a great trophy in itself?

Thanks.





Most places where black bears are found one also finds whitetail deer, Elk, Caribou, Moose, but late in the fall/early winter the black bears hybernate until spring.

I don't personally consider the black bear a trophy animal but the hides hang beautifully over a couch! Black bears are plentiful and are hunted over all of northern US and Canada and Alaska.

If you want to hunt real bears go for Grizzly...Kodiak...brown bears. These things get big and truly rate as Dangerous game!

Personally, I'd use a bolt gun in .375 H&H or there abouts but the double rifle will surely be a fine choice. I'd rather shoot my bear at 100 yards than 20!!!!

--------------------


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Double_Trouble
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Reged: 27/04/06
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #66172 - 02/12/06 07:59 AM

NitroX:
I agree with Vapodog in that Black Bear is not the greatest trophy animal but we bait for them for the same reason mentioned Vapo,,, the hides look great and we could use another one or two in our hunt camp.

when we hunt moose in Oct and deer Nov, we bait black bear with whatever we have that stinks the most and i mean the stinkier the better.

the two of us that pay most attention to the bait pile and put up the tree stands hunt with either a 30-30, 30-06 or what I normally carry, a 7mm Rem Mag.

we have had the bait pile hit and cleaned right down to the rope holding the rotting carcass of somebodies freezer burned Thanksgiving turkey. we seem to feed the bears more than shoot them as while we are up for moose and or deer, we hunt the way Erik does in europe,using hounds to push the game into blockers hence if one or two of us stay back to sit on the bait and dont go on the drive we leave a hole in the line and it isnt fair to the rest of the group.

to most guys in the camp our efforts of setting up and lugging all that rotting crap into the bush seem worthless but to us, its all part of the fun of getting out and doing something different and who knows we may just get one using the hit and miss method we employ,,, if not its still a laugh dragging that shit out there and occaisionally sitting in the tree stand ( if we get back to camp in time from the driven hunts ) for a while.

next year we are going to use the services of a fellow up by our camp who baits several places within about a 10km radius but only allows archery hunting... so who knows, we just may be able to bag a moose or deer with bow as well while sitting in the stands.

well that my 2 cents worth on the subject

DT

--------------------
Double Trouble,
Speak not of what you do not know.
Listen up when it's time to.


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waterrat
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Reged: 22/03/06
Posts: 3
Loc: Lake Iliamna Alaska
Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #66806 - 11/12/06 06:46 PM

Joe Want used a 500 Nitro Express on Kodiak for yrs and his favorite load was A-Square lion loads. He finally sold it to a hunter who made an offer Joe couldn't refuse and now uses a Ruger 416 Rigby

--------------------
I TEND TO USE MORE THAN ENOUGH GUN


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458Win
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Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska
Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: waterrat]
      #69019 - 07/01/07 02:33 PM

I saw Joe's H&H Royal 500 shortly after he got it, as well as when he sold it. All of my guns combined are not worth how much Joe's rifle lost in value during the ten or so years he carried it. There was no blueing left, deep pits in the barrels - both inside and out - and no checkering left on the stock. It mattered not a bit to Joe, who seriously used it on more than a few occations, but the fact that he went back to a bolt gun - he started with a pre-64 M-70 458 that was lost in a house fire - and went back to a Ruger 416 - tells me doubles certainly are not needed - or even to be prefered.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com


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gunbug
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Reged: 14/01/05
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Loc: british columbia
Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #71006 - 08/02/07 02:32 PM

Hello : We do not bait bears but see and shoot quite a few and I think blackies will eat anything cause they are always hungry but like fresh food best. Grizzlies like rotten meat as far as i have seen. just my observations. Regards Dan

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: gunbug]
      #377628 - 28/06/23 01:24 AM

Cal Pappas was in Alaska hunting with his .450/400 on YouTube. It might have been caribou?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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458Win
.333 member


Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska
Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #377755 - 03/07/23 04:44 PM

Alaska country is tough, rugged and typically quite wet. And the largest bears are seldom far from salt water.
Guides in such rugged country typically do not allow hunters to carry rounds chambered due to the chance of the hunter tripping or falling. Which means hunters with double rifles need to carry empty and then load on the final stalk.
This really is not much of a handicap as I carried my 450/400 double that way for a few years. But I much preferred carrying a bolt rifle

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: 458Win]
      #377763 - 03/07/23 05:33 PM

Quote:


Guides in such rugged country typically do not allow hunters to carry rounds chambered due to the chance of the hunter tripping or falling. Which means hunters with double rifles need to carry empty and then load on the final stalk.





Thats got to be a question I must ask before booking a hunt if I ever do again 2ith an outfitter. Just because many wannabe clients who only use outfitters and guides don't know how to carry a firearm doesn't mean everyone is like that. Maybe the overly risk adverse guides need a new profession as well.

Touch wood I've never fallen over and had a rifle go off ever, bolt, double or shotgun. Maybe my fingers aren't on the triggers all the time ...

I remember one risk adverse pheasant shoot where the owner insisted the double shotguns be broken the whole time. My Azhur ended up becoming rust affected. Ffff that. Walking around the whole day with the shotgun broken. If I'd known he brought in that stupid rule I'd have brought along my old Greener instead.

Can I hunt without a guide instead?

This rule by some guides would be a big reason no doubles are brought.

PS thanks for the comment though, Phil.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (03/07/23 05:48 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #377764 - 03/07/23 06:44 PM

On the subject.

A lot of African PHs carry doubles all day, every day. Loaded, otherwise why else carry a rifle at all?

I wonder how many accidental discharges they have?

I suspect close to zero.

Because maybe they know how to carry a rifle or gun. Finger off the trigger,safety on.

I suspect some of these attitudes also aresafety excessive target range warrior attitudes carrying over to the hunting fields. One sees those attitudes all the time on social media hunter warriors.

Africa isn't always dry and non slippery as well. Swamps and wetlands are plenty slippable. Slimy wood. Grasses and reeds in the wetlands. Like the Top End here.

I think the one deer a year rich clowns booking a hunt might need more than bench rest range shooting experience. And if sitting in a high seat only for whitetail.

One thing I have thought about. The advantages of the Krieghof decocker "safeties". I'll admit I've never used one except in a gunshop or show. But the bolt action Mauser M03 has a decocker many screen experts complain about as well. Me too! Before I used one. It's not a problem.

A good double rifle with a reliable decocker safety would be a great boon. Particularly for a PH or Guide who carries it a lot, loaded, but rarely shoots it.

Krieghof doubles have them. The aweful Blasers did as well. Some other European doubles do as well in various forms.

One great design, the old hammer guns are an excellent design for carrying loaded. An external hammer can still be jared of course.

***

I've had one accidental discharge. My BLR, Browning Lever Action in .308. Hunting donkeys withntwo selfish arseholes, the worst least satisfying hunt of my life. Because if the pair I had to have a long. From a BS internet hunt club. Anyway inwas driving. We saw some donkeys. They got out and immediately ran toward them. I had to stop as driver, get out, get my rifle and then run after them 50 metres behind. I chambered a round with the lever. While running. Then tried to set the hammer to half cock safety while running. The muzzle safely pointing into the sky. I slipped on the hammer. The rifle went off. The chief arsehole in front of me, turned and yelled abuse at me. He was an expert on everything.i never bothered explaining as it wasn't worth it with this guy.

Btw he also cheated me on the share of fuel costs. I supplied the vehicle but ended up paying most of the fuel costs. He had volunteered to keep the fuel cost register but refused to let me see it. I ended up paying most of the return journey alone to get my vehicle back. And over half the trip North. He was also a tally counting shooter, who argued about whonshot what. Never again with an unknown person. Btw he was briefly on these forums. No wonder Al, his hunts posted were him hunting alone ... The other guy followed him around like a lap dog. .. All besides the point of this thread.

***

I learned, to never set a hammer to half cock while running. Stop. Do it safely. Then start running again. Even if your fellows are selfish arseholes and shoot everything before you the driver can catch up.

Btw a different subject. On the handgun SIG P226s (I think?) I think they have a decocking lever as well as safety. I liked that feature. Unfortunately let them go, at $1500 they sold quickly.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26688
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Any big bears taken with a double? [Re: NitroX]
      #377779 - 04/07/23 01:28 AM

Quote:

I believe we have one or two members who have used their doubles, a .450/400 I believe on Alaskan Brown Bears. A 400gr .400 SP at 2100 fps certainly would be good close cover medicine.




IIRC, a grizzly shot in Alaska within 15 mines of the coast or ocean, is a brown bear. If over 15 miles the grizzly is called a grizzly. Phil or others from Alaska could verify or correct this statement.

Many people, some Americans, sometimes others will call a brown-phase black bear, a brown bear, although this is not correct.

We also have white & cinnamon (more blondish) phase black bears. The white ones are called "Kermody or Kermodies" & have nothing to do with polar bears.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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