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85lc
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Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1031
Loc: Georgia, USA
W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information
      #376760 - 17/05/23 02:59 AM

In another post (A Jeffery Double in 600 NE), we discussed the possibility that the Jeffery daybook may be available, and that Jeffery owners could get information about their Jeffery guns (rifles & shotguns).

The Jeffery daybooks are owned by the Friedkin Group fo Houston, TX. I reached out to The Friedkin Group to find out if we could get access to the daybooks. I agreed to coordinate the requests. The Friedkin Group said they would provide the information (see email exchange below)

If you want to find information about your Jeffery, please send me your name, email address, serial number, model, and caliber. I will compile a list and send that to the Jeffery office at The Friedkin Group. Please send your information by June 1, 2023.

When we get information back, I will ask that you reimburse me what I had to pay The Friedkin Group.


What I wrote to The Friedkin Group:

"Years ago, Thomas Friedkin purchased W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks). These daybooks record information about the rifles and shotguns sold by the W.J. Jeffery.

"After Thomas Friedkin died in 2017, these daybooks were passed on to the Friedkin Group.

"A number of people I know have guns sold by W.J. Jeffery and would like to get information about these guns that is contained in the W.J. Jeffery's daybooks.

"Is it possible to get this information?

"If it is possible to get this information, I can send a list of each gun including serial number and would appreciate a photostat of that part of the daybook for those guns.

"If that is acceptable, please let me know what that would cost."

--------------------
RB

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ChrisCoade
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Reged: 11/04/23
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Loc: Stow-on-the-Wold, England
Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
      #376764 - 17/05/23 04:26 AM

Rusty Knight (RIP 2022) & Mark Cash (RIP 2019) and R Nolan Keiler did a lot of research on Jeffery N.E. Double Rifles. They identified that a number of the Jeffery N.E. Double Rifles (and A. Hollis N.E.Double Rifles) were actually made by the gunmaker Daniel Leonard & Sons of Birmingham.
Those Leonard-made N.E. Double Rifles have a 3 or 4 digit Makers Number stamped on the under-rib just forward of the fore-end lug & that same Makers Number also stamped on the Action underneath the bottom action plate. If it was a "finished" gun then the Makers Number was also stamped in ink on the interior of the Stock where it joins the action and also stamped in ink under the forearm metal.
Chris

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85lc
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Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1031
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: ChrisCoade]
      #376769 - 17/05/23 08:34 AM

From what I have read, Jeffery was more of a gun seller than a gun maker. I understood that Jeffery only employed a few gunsmiths.

I have two Jeffery "Farquharsons" action rifles. I understand that Jeffery (as well as Holland, WRA, Lancaster, and most others) bought either the action, barreled action, or complete rifles from either Francotte of another Belgium gunmaker.

I thought most of Jeffery's double rifles were made by Webley.

It is like finding out that your Plymouth Road Runner was actually made by another company that also made Malibus for Chevy.

--------------------
RB

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ChrisCoade
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
      #376773 - 17/05/23 04:38 PM

One of the interesting points that your access to the Jeffery "daybooks"(workbooks) will identify is who actually made their Jeffery N.E. Double Rifles. The Rusty Knight & Mark Cash & R. Nolan Keiler research showed that Daniel Leonard & Sons made a significant number of the W.J. Jeffery (& A.Hollis)
N.E. Double Rifles. A number of good Birmingham gunmakers made guns "For the Trade" for Gun Retailers in London or overseas either "In the White" or as "Finished Guns".

Chris C

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: ChrisCoade]
      #376776 - 17/05/23 07:08 PM

Quote:

One of the interesting points that your access to the Jeffery "daybooks"(workbooks) will identify is who actually made their Jeffery N.E. Double Rifles. The Rusty Knight & Mark Cash & R. Nolan Keiler research showed that Daniel Leonard & Sons made a significant number of the W.J. Jeffery (& A.Hollis)
N.E. Double Rifles. A number of good Birmingham gunmakers made guns "For the Trade" for Gun Retailers in London or overseas either "In the White" or as "Finished Guns".

Chris C



A lot of the big name brands rebranded firearms made by other makers.

A reason I regarded some of the ridiculous criticism of modern Rigby as hypocritical. Just the same today as in the past. Same rebranded, some built in house. Many fine examples built in house. All function as they should.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
      #376777 - 17/05/23 07:53 PM

Well done RB.

I'm interested as I posted in information on my "Zabardast" (my name for it only), .450 no.2 Nitro Express W.J. Jeffery. I assume the model is a boxlock? I'll send you details.

Any idea of the cost? $50 or more/less would be fine. I couldn't afford hundreds of dollars though and neither is it worth it. Sorry to complicate it but I can't afford blank cheques at the moment. $$$ are tight.

Thanks for organising this for members. Hopefully more
makes use of this opportunity.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: NitroX]
      #376780 - 18/05/23 01:07 AM

Yes I would like some sort of Idea cost also, before I ask.

Also I would like sort of Idea what information will be returned.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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85lc
.400 member


Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1031
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: DoubleD]
      #376786 - 18/05/23 02:20 AM

My initial thought was to get a spread sheet and send it to The Franklin Group and see what they say about cost.

I figured that it would be $100 which is what I paid for Lancaster info. I don't know what condition and how searchable the records are which impacts costs. My thoughts are that the more records requested, the cost should be less.

However, let me ask about cost. I will get back with you.

--------------------
RB

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HistoricBore
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
      #376788 - 18/05/23 03:35 AM

Similarly, I would like to know some more about my W. Jeffery 12 bore hammer gun, serial number 252xx. Its Proof marks indicate that it was made in Birmingham between 1904 and 1925.

But it is only the "Farmers' Gun" retailing for £3-0-0, totally plain. Proof marks show that it is actually a 13 bore, and weighs just over 7 pounds with 30" barrels. So I don't want to spend a lot for such a simple gun.

HB

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85lc
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Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1031
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: HistoricBore]
      #376798 - 18/05/23 07:40 AM

Guys,

The Franklin Group said that they will not charge us for theinformation. They pointed out that what they have is limited but would be glad to look up the information for us.

That is really nice for them to do that.

Perhaps instead of paying, you could make a donation to NitroForum which John has worked tireless to run.

I will let you know what is needed.

--------------------
RB

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1465
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
      #376801 - 18/05/23 11:10 AM

Just a quick addition to this very nice work that RB/85lc has contributed.

My dealings in past years with the Friedkin Group executive assistant that relayed the info for my Jeffery rifles was entirely positive, save the rather lengthy time windows involved.

What can be expected, based upon my experience, is a confirmation email with the relevant info that was found as well as a digital photo of the daybook page with the rifle/gun serial number.

No fancy Letter of Provenience as provided (at a cost) by some of the famed Brit makers, but very nice none the less and quite nice of them to do this at no charge.

- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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A10ACN
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Reged: 30/01/05
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 3DogMike]
      #376804 - 18/05/23 12:15 PM

I’m interested. Currently out of town. I’ll get the serial numbers when I return.

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85lc
.400 member


Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1031
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: A10ACN]
      #376805 - 18/05/23 12:40 PM

Mike,
I think your comments are exactly right. Everyone at TFG has been very positive, a really nice group of people. BTW, my contact at TFG is "Sharpshooter". Sounds like a gun guy to me.

--------------------
RB

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85lc
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Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1031
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: HistoricBore]
      #377154 - 04/06/23 06:08 AM

Quote:

Similarly, I would like to know some more about my W. Jeffery 12 bore hammer gun, serial number 252xx. Its Proof marks indicate that it was made in Birmingham between 1904 and 1925.

But it is only the "Farmers' Gun" retailing for £3-0-0, totally plain. Proof marks show that it is actually a 13 bore, and weighs just over 7 pounds with 30" barrels. So I don't want to spend a lot for such a simple gun.

HB



HB, DD, Nitro, & others

ZERO COST

Send me the serial # and basic info including your contact info so I can send to you what information is available.

I have held off sending the list becauae I have not heard bak for a couple of people. will send the spread sheet I complied to TFG next Monday (6/12)

Thanks

--------------------
RB

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39896
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
      #377163 - 04/06/23 04:27 PM

Apologies. I thought about it on the evening here of the 1st, then again last night. I hope you had delayed. Thanks.

I will pm you the information, also email it.,

I'll see if I can email this thread to all posting interest to get the full list for your enquiry.

Thanks very much.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (04/06/23 04:29 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: NitroX]
      #377184 - 06/06/23 03:43 PM

Not sure if it's too late for anyone not seei g this by yesterday.

I pmed my info. But didn't get time to email everyone.

Good opportunity organised by 85lc.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: NitroX]
      #377197 - 07/06/23 11:56 PM

Information on a sporting rifle Jeffery's built on a Francotte style Martini Action in 577 Snider sent to Roy via Private message.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3595
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: DoubleD]
      #377201 - 08/06/23 09:50 AM

Yeah, I missed the cutoff too!
My cousin sailed in from SE Asia a week or so back, along with his son Jack (Strick) and partner Fran as mentioned in another thread recently, and I got distracted!
Meanwhile...
A cute little Jeffery 6.5 Mannlicher sporter on a Steyr action has been in my employ for some 15 years or more, and its time I found out a bit more about it. As I said to Roy, if the sale register was still extant I would have attempted to chase up the provenance years ago!

How many Jeffery firearms did we end up with in this RFI?

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: Marrakai]
      #377202 - 08/06/23 04:04 PM

Quote:


My cousin sailed in from SE Asia a week or so back, along with his son Jack (Strick) and partner Fran as mentioned in another thread recently, and I got distracted!




Are we going to see a Marrakai in a future Strick video?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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85lc
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Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1031
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: NitroX]
      #377207 - 09/06/23 02:51 AM

I have 13 guns on the list which is nice. I am waiting on a friend who is traveling to send me the serial numbers of his two rifles. I should have those this weekend and will send the list to TFG then.
It will be interesting to see what records exist.

--------------------
RB

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 85lc]
      #377208 - 09/06/23 03:05 AM

Quote:

I have 13 guns on the list which is nice. I am waiting on a friend who is traveling to send me the serial numbers of his two rifles. I should have those this weekend and will send the list to TFG then.
It will be interesting to see what records exist.



So gentlemen, get yours in asap from the sound of it?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: NitroX]
      #377210 - 10/06/23 12:08 AM

It would be interesting to see the various guns on this list and what the day book says about them.

The gun I have submitted is a Francotte Style Martini sporting rifle in 577 Snider. This is the same action used by Westley Richards for the 30,000 "Made especially for the ZAR" military rifles.

This is a full on sporting rifle by Jefferies, not a converted military rifle.




Edited by DoubleD (10/06/23 08:30 AM)

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: DoubleD]
      #377211 - 10/06/23 08:38 AM

Lovely piece DD
Nice pronghorn too if I'm not mistaken!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: 93x64mm]
      #377212 - 10/06/23 05:24 PM

My WJ Jeffery has appeared on stage before.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3510&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

A distinguished Indian Gentleman.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: W.J. Jeffery's "daybooks" (workbooks) information [Re: NitroX]
      #377216 - 10/06/23 09:49 PM

That is Blesbok.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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