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buckstix
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A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home
      #375447 - 23/03/23 12:34 PM

A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home to be added to the others.

I just got this one in hand today and have posted pictures. This one is a real beauty.
And a marvelous complete package. All I need now is some warm weather, and an elephant in Wisconsin.

24" Barrel
8 pounds 13 ounces
14-1/2" LOP

as always, your comments are most welcome




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DarylS
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375448 - 23/03/23 01:10 PM

SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Huvius
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: DarylS]
      #375452 - 23/03/23 02:12 PM

WOW!!
You're all set now in the 10.75X68 department.
That's a very nice and usable rig for sure!

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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eagle27
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: DarylS]
      #375453 - 23/03/23 02:12 PM

Very good find and purchase buckstix. Getting all those new cases let alone the bullets is a heaven sent as 10.75 components are not always easy to come by.
My own 404 started life as a 10.75x68 only as a Type A Pattern No.1 and with serial no 109624 it was made in same 1930-31 year range as yours.

I have a few of the original early RWS 347gr bullets to hand that were made for the 10.75x68 and a couple of old rounds, one a Kynoch with a solid bullet and the other a Berdan primed case that had an odd 285gr Hollow Point bullet seated in it. I pulled the bullet to ascertain it's weight and found there was no powder in what I thought was a loaded round but it has the original unfired Berdan primer. This cartridge was given to me years ago by a friend so I don't know how it came to be as it was with a strange case, Berdan primer and bullet.

RWS 347gr bullets for the Mauser 10.75x68.


L - RWS 285gr .423 HP bullet. R - RWS 347gr SFP .423 bullet




Unusual 10.75x68 Berdan primed case which had the RWS 285gr HP bullet seated.


Will be keen to see how your new toy shoots.

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DarylS
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: eagle27]
      #375454 - 23/03/23 02:44 PM

Yes- I am looking forward to some shooting results as well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Rothhammer1
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375458 - 23/03/23 05:05 PM

Quote:

A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home to be added to the others.










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93x64mm
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: DarylS]
      #375462 - 23/03/23 10:55 PM

Quote:

Yes- I am looking forward to some shooting results as well.


Oh yes indeed!
Beautiful hunting rifle there mate, loaded down for pigs it will punch straight thru them no worries at all!
Now for that elephant you were waiting for............!

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buckstix
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #375463 - 23/03/23 10:59 PM

Hello All,
Thank you All for the interesting reply.

I'm really excited about owning such a Classic Mauser. It's from a time in History when German hunters used rifles like these in South Africa. Some say many more rifles like these than their British counterparts. Although controversy still continues about this caliber, its because of past bullet shortcomings. Modern bullets and powders available today, make it a viable Big Game rifle. Good quality bullets available from Hornady like the 400g Softs and Solids, can reach 2200 fps. The 10.75x68 is truly the baby brother to the 10.75x73. (404 Jeffery)

Its been my job to keep the elephant population under control here in Wisconsin, ..... and I've been doing a good job.

--------------------
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degoins
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375466 - 24/03/23 12:18 AM

Wow....nice one....congrats!!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375467 - 24/03/23 12:19 AM

That's true. IF you can get to 2100 fps or more with the 400 gr bullets, it will equal the old .404 Jeffery.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
      #375468 - 24/03/23 12:25 AM

Some potential bullet choices.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=301932&page=0&vc=1

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Rothhammer1
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375469 - 24/03/23 12:26 AM

Quote:

It's from a time in History when German hunters used rifles like these in South Africa. Some say many more rifles like these than their British counterparts...



There was an Austrian, as well, though quite rare:



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Rothhammer1
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375471 - 24/03/23 12:37 AM

Quote:

Although controversy still continues about this caliber, its because of past bullet shortcomings. Modern bullets and powders available today, make it a viable Big Game rifle. Good quality bullets available from Hornady like the 400g Softs and Solids, can reach 2200 fps. The 10.75x68 is truly the baby brother to the 10.75x73. (404 Jeffery)







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buckstix
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
      #375472 - 24/03/23 01:48 AM

Quote:

That's true. IF you can get to 2100 fps or more with the 400 gr bullets, it will equal the old .404 Jeffery.


Hello NitroX,
Thanks for your reply.

400g Hornady SP - 56g IMR4198 = 2150 fps

I obtained this velocity with my old Oberndorf 10.75x68 rifle that I sold in 2021. I will be testing this load in this new rifle as well, and I expect similar results. This is nearly identical to 450-400 NE 3" results, which has been used extensively in Africa.

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kuduae
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375474 - 24/03/23 02:59 AM

Quote:

I'm really excited about owning such a Classic Mauser. It's from a time in History when German hunters used rifles like these in South Africa. Some say many more rifles like these than their British counterparts.


These 10.75x68 B type Mauser sporters were not only used by Germans in South Africa. Instead, they were the standard large bore repeaters all over non-British Africa, from Senegal to Somalia and from Mali to Mosambique. The French, Belgian, Portuguese, Spanish and Italian colonists there had not read Taylor. So they happily shot their elephants, rhinos and buffalos with rifles in 10.75x68, rifles made by Mauser, Suhl, MAS and Belgian makers. To them inches, grains, feet per second and foot pounds were just as foreign as metric numbers were to Brits and Americans like Taylor or Elmer Keith.

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kuduae
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: kuduae]
      #375475 - 24/03/23 03:12 AM


The serial number 106079 dates it to 1930, see Jon Speed’s books.
Ch72 is the Mauser factory code for the barrel steel used.
10.45 mm = .411” is the bore/land diameter, 10.75 mm = .423” the groove diameter, 420 mm = 16.5” length of rifling twist.
67,49 is the old gauge number, lead balls to the English pound, for a bore/land diameter in between 10.41 mm = .410” and and 10.66 mm = .419”. Though out of use elsewhere in Germany since 1912, the Mauser factory continued to mark these gauge numbers on their commercial barrels until WW2.
BGU are the usual 1893 to 1939 German rifle proof marks.

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lancaster
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: kuduae]
      #375476 - 24/03/23 05:06 AM

"The French, Belgian, Portuguese, Spanish and Italian colonists there had not read Taylor. So they happily shot their elephants, rhinos and buffalos with rifles in 10.75x68"

uninformed, thats what they were

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grandveneur
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: lancaster]
      #375481 - 24/03/23 08:33 AM

Everything is fine, no one knows what went wrong.

In all these discussions, I am the only one who has shot buffaloes with this cartridge in Africa, two buffaloes with the original ammunition from RWS and the 22,5g thin jacketed bullet, one with a reloaded cartridge and a 347gr FMJ bullet from Woodleigh.

In all cases, as experienced big game hunters had previously noted, I found a lack of penetration.

Therefore, before expressing a opinion on the effectiveness of this cartridge when hunting big game, it would be better to test it yourself. This cartridge is marginal for hunting big game, and to believe that modern bullets and powder can improve something is just wishful thinking.

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FlatTop45
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: grandveneur]
      #375482 - 24/03/23 10:22 AM

Hey buckstix! Another gorgeous rifle! You certainly have a talent for finding these beauties. Hopefully, the weather will cooperate and you will get the opportunity to try her out soon.

However, the way the weather has been acting lately, instead of an elephant, you may want to get a tag for a Wooly Mammoth instead!




J

Edited by FlatTop45 (24/03/23 10:24 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: FlatTop45]
      #375484 - 24/03/23 11:17 AM

If it does 2,150fps with a 400gr. FMJ, DGS or DGX in .423",
I dare say the penetration will be more than sufficient & would be wonderful on the larger NA game.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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buckstix
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: grandveneur]
      #375487 - 24/03/23 11:44 AM

Quote:

"....In all these discussions, I am the only one who has shot buffaloes with this cartridge in Africa, two buffaloes with the original ammunition from RWS and the 22,5g thin jacketed bullet, one with a reloaded cartridge and a 347gr FMJ bullet from Woodleigh.

Hello grandveneur.
Thanks for the reply.
.
I saw the original post that you later deleted .. and I appreciate you have had bad experiences when you hunted with your 10.75x68 rifle. Although I'll never use my rifle in Africa, I'm a retired researcher, and I look to several sources before jumping to conclusions. That being said, I'm more inclined to believe Pierre van der Walt's opinions and personal experiences when he wrote about the 10.75x68 cartridge in his book "African Dangerous Game Cartridges"
.
Quote:

In all cases, as experienced big game hunters had previously noted, I found a lack of penetration.

Not so ! ... not all experienced big game hunters agree ... as Pierre writes about the cartridge, " ... Those who knew it well, kept on using it ... " The cartridge was used extensively by German, French, Belgian, Portuguese, Spanish and Italian Big Game hunters, for many decades, harvesting Elephants, Rhinos, and Buffalo.

Quote:

Therefore, before expressing a opinion on the effectiveness of this cartridge when hunting big game, it would be better to test it yourself. This cartridge is marginal for hunting big game, and to believe that modern bullets and powder can improve something is just wishful thinking.


To make such a blanket statement about the "cartridge" is just plain false. Maybe next time try a better load. If you develop a load using good quality bullets,
(such as those from Hornady) at a velocity of 2,100+ fps, (and you have "good shot placement") you will likely be successful.

In "my" opinion, common sense says; the Elephant or Buffalo doesn't know what "cartridge" just killed him - just the bullet.

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eagle27
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375488 - 24/03/23 12:59 PM

There has always been debate about the true effectiveness of the Mauser 10.75x68 cartridge, remembering that in the heyday of African hunting reloading was not practiced therefore it all came down to factory ammo performance. The shorter 347gr bullet loaded in the 10.75x68 did not have the sectional density that makes for good penetrating bullets and the earlier bullet jackets tended to be thinner than is used today. Even solid bullets in some cartridges fishtailed and distorted enough to preclude reliable penetration to the kill areas.
The respected cartridges that performed well on big game tended to have long and heavy for calibre bullets i.e. good sectional density.

Maybe of some interest is the image below showing both the 404 Jeffery (10.75x73) and 10.75x68 cartridges alongside the respective 400gr and 347gr bullets these cartridges are normally loaded with.
As can be seen, if loaded to normal OAL, a 'Kynoch' profile 400gr bullet would be seated approximately 4mm deep into the 10.75x68 cartridge powder capacity area, I calculate about an 8.5% capacity loss. Crimping maybe an issue too as the ogive of the 400gr bullet is down in, or close to being in, the case neck. This maybe overcome if magazine length and throating permitted seating the heavier bullets out to a longer OAL.
If a safe load was found for a 400gr bullet in the smaller Mauser case without going overboard on pressure and showing any hint of issues holding the bullet in the case neck then at 2100fps the 10.75x68 should be as effective as the 404 Jeffery was in it's original loading. Of course due to the earlier low intensity loading the 404 gained a reputation as an easy shooting cartridge which no doubt contributed to it's good performance on big and dangerous game. Whether a 10.75x68 loaded to original 404J specs can do the same, who knows.

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buckstix
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: eagle27]
      #375491 - 24/03/23 02:58 PM

Hello eagle27,
Thanks for the reply.

Very interesting .. What you say is 98% spot-on ... However, you might want to read the details about sectional density in the "performance" chapter on the 10.75x68 cartridge in Pierre van der Walt's book "African Dangerous Game Cartridges". You might be surprised. That book also gives much loading data for the cartridge using 400g bullets, with several examples at 2140+fps. Same holds true with loads listed in Load Book. We are fortunate to have much improved powders and bullets and loading data available today for those who may be interested in using their 10.75x68 rifles for Big Game.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: buckstix]
      #375493 - 24/03/23 03:43 PM

Sectional densities of .422/423 bullets from the Woodleigh site:

404 Jeffery .422"
35 350gr RN SN 50 .281 .293 1800-2600 1.128
33A 400gr RN SN 50 .321 .335 1900-2400 1.282
34 400gr FMJ 50 .321 .330 1.347
33B 450gr RN SN 50 .361 .360 1800-2300 1.416
34B 450gr FMJ 50 .361 .355 1.491

10.75 x 68mm .423"
36 347gr RN SN 50 .277 .290 1800-2300 1.116
36A 347gr FMJ 50 .277 .288 1.188

347/350 gr is SD .277/281

Below the optimum penetration SD of the .330/338 250 gr SD 328/313, .366 286 gr SD 305, 300 gr .375 SD 305, .416 400 gr SD 330, .422 400 gr SD 321, .458. 480 gr/500 gr. SD. 327/341.

All the usual choices are SD 305 to 340.

The .375 270 gr SD is .274.

Both the 10.75 with its 350 gr bullets and .375 lesser capacity cases with a 270 gr bullet have not reputable big heavy dangerous game reputations. One can see one possible reason for lack of penetration with their lower SDs.

The other possible reason is thinly jacketed SPs. Proper FMJs shouldn't have this problem. But still suffer a lower SD.

Using a 400 gr projectile for the .404 with good jacket and construction should remove any such issues. If sufficient velocity can be achieved.

The original .404 loading, 400 gr at 2,100 fps and the .450/400 NEs, 400 gr at also 2,100 fps, both have probably killed thousands of buffalo, elephant and other thick skinned game.

NO reasons the 10.75x68 with a decent 400 gr at 2,100 fps can't do the same.

I'm sure I've read of hunters using the 10.75x68 on Australian water buffalo. Also at least one magazine article. Just none of our Aussie NE members. Be good to know of their personal experiences.

The 10.75x68 cartridge is uncommon here in Australia. Far fewer rifles coming on sale or auction than in Europe. Why get a x68 when one can get the better .404, .375, .458 etc? There are some certainly around. Often at a better price.

Interesting that this was one cartridge used heavily by continental world hunters. No wonder there is so often French rifles from their colonial empire chambered in 10.75x68. in addition to the usual German and Austrian rifles.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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buckstix
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Re: A Mauser 10.75x68 Oberndorf Model B Safari rifle comes home [Re: NitroX]
      #375494 - 24/03/23 04:25 PM

Quote:

.....The original .404 loading, 400 gr at 2,100 fps and the .450/400 NEs, 400 gr at also 2,100 fps, both have probably killed thousands of buffalo, elephant and other thick skinned game. NO reasons the 10.75x68 with a decent 400 gr at 2,100 fps can't do the same. .....

Hello NitroX,
Thanks for the reply.

My point exactly ... modern times for a vintage cartridge.

--------------------
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