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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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Ahmed577
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Loc: Western Australia
.410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels
      #374580 - 27/02/23 10:59 PM

Not able to start new post. Can someone tell me who will make 410 paradox, rifled choked or explora barrels florentina barrels. My boss hornet with 410 extra barrels is underway. I need to shoot pig or quail.

Edited by NitroX (28/02/23 12:24 AM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: Ahmed577]
      #374582 - 28/02/23 12:25 AM

C, I've moved your reply to a new thread and retitled it for you.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Ahmed577
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: NitroX]
      #374583 - 28/02/23 12:34 AM

Thankyou John.

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Ahmed577
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: Ahmed577]
      #374584 - 28/02/23 12:58 AM

Can someone tell me who can rifle choke 410 bore barrel

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DarylS
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: Ahmed577]
      #374589 - 28/02/23 05:31 AM

Interesting you are going to attempt this, Ahmed577. When I saw my buddy Brad's tightly choked .410 SxS, I asked him if he'd let me choke them, or one or just the tubes.
I figured the right barrel, rifled just the choke for a 3" hull and perhaps a 220gr. cast projectiles, would be a cool deer rifle. I haven't tried it, but I thought the case should hold about 80 to 90gr. of powder. A fired 2 1/2" WW case is just over 2 1/2" long and holds 65gr. 3F level to the top. Perhaps 80g.r is about maximum. Still, a decent load, but the bullet would have to be sticking out, some.
He did not want to do this, so the project was scrapped, without any more consideration. This type of work is likely beyond me now.
A rifled barrel used as a guide would have been used, in my case, to do this "work". I also no longer have a long enough bench. LOL - Just thought of that.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: DarylS]
      #374625 - 01/03/23 01:31 AM

A question. Have .410 barrels ever been made into paradox style rifled muzzles?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Ahmed577
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: NitroX]
      #374634 - 01/03/23 10:34 AM

It seems probably not.

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DarylS
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: NitroX]
      #374646 - 01/03/23 02:33 PM

Quote:

A question. Have .410 barrels ever been made into paradox style rifled muzzles?



I doubt it, but it would make neat SxS rifle, just the same.
With 1/2 ounce bullets (220gr.) it could likely make 1,500fps. This would be slightly more powerful than a long barreled .41 Rem Mag.
Pigs, deer, goats - whatever. I think it would be fun, but regulation might be hit or miss - mostly miss unless it was only one barrel that was rifled.

Using another barrel as a guide, I think something around 16" to 18" rate of twist would be about right.
The rifling might be from .010" to .015" deep in a full choked .410 bore barrel which should grab the slug.
Would need a fairly long bench for both shotgun barrels and guide barrel held in vices, however the "stroke" to cut the grooves would be short, likely only 5" to 6" long at most.
Enough for the cutter to clear the muzzle for cleaning chips(mud) and re-lubricating. Best to use the breach area in front of the chamber of the guide barrel, to prevent any enlargement of the bore at the muzzle.
Lead laps would have to be case on the guide rod running through the guide barrel and into the .410's choke area which would have the cutter inset. Deepening the cutter's contact would be done with slips of cigarette paper under the cutter in it's housing in the lead plug.
A long rod would be needed for the rifling guide, 48" would suffice easily, but depends on the guide barrel length.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: DarylS]
      #374680 - 03/03/23 01:14 AM

Colin. Could rifle barrels in the .408 to .410 range be used?

Perhaps rechambered to use a .410 shotgun case? Would be fully rifled of course.

Ideas?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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93x64mm
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: NitroX]
      #374697 - 03/03/23 07:17 AM

Surely someone has tried a rifled 'choke' insert rather than rifle a shotgun like a paradox?

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DarylS
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: 93x64mm]
      #374705 - 03/03/23 08:28 AM

There are rifled choke tubes for modern shotguns. TAOFLEDERMAUS U-tubers used one oft times in 12 bore. Are they any .410 shotguns with removable chokes?
I've not heard of any.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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85lc
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: DarylS]
      #374709 - 03/03/23 10:12 AM

There are several manufacturers that produce choke tubes for .410 shotguns. Carlson produces several .410 choke tubes.

I have not seen a rifle choke tube for .410 shotguns.

I have used a rifle choke tube in 12 ga and it works well. I have seen rifle choke tube for 20 ga guns.

--------------------
RB

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DarylS
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: 85lc]
      #374710 - 03/03/23 10:14 AM

I was aware of them for 20's and 12's, but not 16's or .410 bore guns.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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bwanabobftw
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: DarylS]
      #374720 - 03/03/23 12:48 PM

Holland’s made a few 16 gauge Paradox’s , There was even a 28 gauge floating around for a while. But, I have never seen a .410? It would be very cool !!!!!!!!

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bwanabobftw
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #374721 - 03/03/23 12:53 PM

I am sure if someone was willing to put the money up for the development cost Holland would build a .410 Paradox (I mean look at the 700 NE).

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Ahmed577
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #374731 - 03/03/23 05:09 PM

Boss are building a 22hornet double rifle for me. They have agreed to add a set of 410 barrels. My thought was can we paradox, rifle choke or fauneta the barrels. I only want the traditional British gun trade style. I do own a 28 bore paradox and this got me wondering about the 410. I think if we can’t find a British example I will not move forward with the idea. Bwanabob I agree with your statement on R&D costs. My problem is time. It is a 10 year exercise and I don’t have the 10 years spare.

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DarylS
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: Ahmed577]
      #374735 - 03/03/23 07:00 PM

I hear you on the 10 year bit, sad to say. who knows, in 10 years. The "climate" political wise is not bright - unless a LOT of people wake up.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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85lc
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: DarylS]
      #374762 - 04/03/23 04:04 AM

bwanabobftw, I am not sure H&H would develop anything for the monies that I could put up. 😊😊

On a serious note, I am not sure what research and development is realy needed to rifle the choke of a set of .410 barrel. If a company like Boss (or H&H) is building a custom DR in 22H with a second set of .410 barrels, it seems that the cost of rifling the choke for the .410 barrels would be relatively minimum. Of course, those barrels would have to be regulated. But that would be a cool double rifle, Likely good for both quail and whitetail. Just my thoughts.

--------------------
RB

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tinkerModerator
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: 85lc]
      #374766 - 04/03/23 05:52 AM

Actual, real, patent H&H Paradox choking is not a standard-form rifling like you'll see in your Remington Model 700 or in the rifled choke tube that you buy from the sporting goods store

I seriously doubt that Holland and Holland would put their name on "any old back-bored 40 caliber rifle barrel" to be included in a multi-barrel set or dedicated Paradox gun

Development is the "fucking around and finding out" part of the process, and at H&H the process would no doubt revolve around their distinctive ratchet-rifled Paradox choking design -- or not -- but that would be on them.

They'd want acceptable patterns and shot density, and they'd want acceptable accuracy with the single projectile etc

They aren't going to do it for free

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



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bwanabobftw
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: tinker]
      #374779 - 04/03/23 09:58 AM

Quote:

Actual, real, patent H&H Paradox choking is not a standard-form rifling like you'll see in your Remington Model 700 or in the rifled choke tube that you buy from the sporting goods store

I seriously doubt that Holland and Holland would put their name on "any old back-bored 40 caliber rifle barrel" to be included in a multi-barrel set or dedicated Paradox gun

Development is the "fucking around and finding out" part of the process, and at H&H the process would no doubt revolve around their distinctive ratchet-rifled Paradox choking design -- or not -- but that would be on them.

They'd want acceptable patterns and shot density, and they'd want acceptable accuracy with the single projectile etc

They aren't going to do it for free



I agree !!!!!!!!! It would not be free and it will not be cheap. But, it would be very cool.

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85lc
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #374827 - 05/03/23 07:53 AM

Tinker,

Thanks for the info. I just assumed that the paradox rifling was standard rifling similar to that in the rifle choke for my Beretta (which works well for me).

You mentioned ratchet-rifling which is certainly different than that used in rifled choke tubes that I looked at. Your reply reminded me that I had read that the Holland rifle choke was a ratchet-rifling.

--------------------
RB

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gatsby
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: NitroX]
      #374883 - 06/03/23 07:41 PM

Quote:

A question. Have .410 barrels ever been made into paradox style rifled muzzles?




Neither Holland or Westley made a 410 rifled choke gun.
Westley however used a 3 groove rifled choke in their 20 and 28 faunetas.

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elvas
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: gatsby]
      #376101 - 18/04/23 04:47 PM

In a Saiga 410 bore shotgun and using a short Saiga 410 bore rifled choke tube Lee cast bullets of 195 & 210 grain (for the 41 magnum) were perfectly stabilized.
It had very deep rifling, about .009 to .010 on each side.
The following is the same rifled choke tube, although the longer one, that could be cut and threaded for making two screw-in rifled chokes, I suppose.
https://saigaclub.net/saiga-ak-vepr-svd-parts/spare-parts-saiga/muzzle-paradox-saiga-410

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DarylS
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Re: .410 bore Paradox, rifle choked or Explora barrels [Re: elvas]
      #376110 - 19/04/23 02:28 AM

Now THAT's interesting.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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