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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Handguns
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animalwithin
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Reged: 31/01/20
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Loc: California, United States
Okay to dry fire?
      #374534 - 27/02/23 04:53 AM

Hi everyone,

I have a German-made 1971 Walther PPK/S 9mm and I'm wondering if it's okay to dry fire practice with this?

I know dry fire is safe for modern fire arms but I'm not sure if this would qualify as "modern" and I certainly don't want to damage it in any way.

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8727
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: animalwithin]
      #374536 - 27/02/23 05:52 AM

I have some original FN made dummys in 7,65 for my PPK, crome plated with a hole in the case to show its not loaded. they were only made from once fired brass whats better than nothing but no plastic/rubber in the primer hole.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26510
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Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: lancaster]
      #374545 - 27/02/23 08:39 AM

I had a WW11 Walther .32 Auto that had 1/10" broken off the tip if it's firing pin.
I assumed it was from someone dry firing, but I don't know for sure.
It was given to me in the 1970's by a vet who brought it home from Germany after the war. The magazine held the 5 rounds that had been in it since 1945/6.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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eagle27
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Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: DarylS]
      #374547 - 27/02/23 09:43 AM

I'm not a fan for dry firing although happy enough doing it with bolt actions with their large strong firing pins and stops. Shotguns and handguns are a different story and I always use snap caps for these firearms. Can be made from fired cases with a section cut from a suitably sized o'ring to glue in the primer pocket to absorb the shock from the falling hammer.
Nylon in a snap cap on it's own is not much better than snapping dry, nylon inserts need springs behind them to absorb the firing shock.

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animalwithin
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Reged: 31/01/20
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Loc: California, United States
Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: eagle27]
      #374557 - 27/02/23 02:10 PM

Quote:

I'm not a fan for dry firing although happy enough doing it with bolt actions with their large strong firing pins and stops. Shotguns and handguns are a different story and I always use snap caps for these firearms. Can be made from fired cases with a section cut from a suitably sized o'ring to glue in the primer pocket to absorb the shock from the falling hammer.
Nylon in a snap cap on it's own is not much better than snapping dry, nylon inserts need springs behind them to absorb the firing shock.



I tried generic snap caps from Amazon and when the paint started chipping off, they kept jamming very badly. I'll need to do some research on how to make some using fired cases.

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Bindi2
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Reged: 03/03/11
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Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: animalwithin]
      #374563 - 27/02/23 03:30 PM


Make your own snap cap
Use a new or FLS case load a projectile drill a hole through the case use a hole punch the correct size to give you a wad of rubber the correct depth of the primer pocket to glue in the primer pocket.
Or just buy a snap cap to suit.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: Bindi2]
      #374570 - 27/02/23 05:43 PM

What's wrong with leaving a used primer in a self made snap cap cartridge?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Bindi2
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Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: NitroX]
      #374575 - 27/02/23 08:25 PM

The rubber insert cushions the pin. Depending on how much headspace there is the primer does move back before the case catches up and reseats it slowing down the thump the spring puts on the pin stop (collar). Dry firing without a snap cap hammers the collar and the Bolt housing changing the pin protrusion which causes primer piecing.

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Marrakai
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Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: Bindi2]
      #374581 - 28/02/23 12:05 AM

Quote:

when the paint started chipping off, they kept jamming


I have a fair number of snap-caps in use and not one of them is painted. Anodised, nickel-plate, polished brass, brushed aluminium, and ABS plastic.
...but thanks for the warning about painted ones, Sam.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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animalwithin
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Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: Marrakai]
      #374591 - 28/02/23 06:07 AM

Marrakai, my mistake, they are in fact anodized from what I understand:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DP4HD3M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Maybe it's really poor anodizing, but as soon as it started chipping off, rams ensued.

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85lc
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Reged: 19/01/18
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Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: animalwithin]
      #374594 - 28/02/23 10:26 AM

I believe that dry firing will break the firing pin over time. There is nothing to cushion the blow and the pin will receive a high tensile stress upon firing.
I have used a structural nylon rod to plug the primer pocket. The nylon provides a gentle stop which doesn't damage the firing pin tip or cause breakage.

--------------------
RB

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Marrakai
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Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: 85lc]
      #374602 - 28/02/23 12:03 PM

Quote:

they are in fact anodized


Some of mine are A-Zoom branded, made in USA (not China!).
No hint of the finish flaking off, but then I don't feed them from the magazine in bolt-actions. Use dummy rounds for that.
Maybe your snap-caps came from a bad batch?

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Homer
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Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: eagle27]
      #374609 - 28/02/23 12:25 PM

G'Day Fella's,

+1 to what Eagle27 said.

Quote:

I'm not a fan for dry firing although happy enough doing it with bolt actions with their large strong firing pins and stops. Shotguns and handguns are a different story and I always use snap caps for these firearms. Can be made from fired cases with a section cut from a suitably sized o'ring to glue in the primer pocket to absorb the shock from the falling hammer.
Nylon in a snap cap on it's own is not much better than snapping dry, nylon inserts need springs behind them to absorb the firing shock.



D'oh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: Homer]
      #374616 - 28/02/23 08:12 PM

Dry firing is a standard at my new pistol club. After showing the action/ chamber is clear, one closed the slide and is told to dry fire the hammer down.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Homer
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Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: NitroX]
      #374631 - 01/03/23 07:27 AM

G'Day Fella's,

Quote:

Dry firing is a standard at my new pistol club. After showing the action/ chamber is clear, one closed the slide and is told to dry fire the hammer down.



Yes NitroX but there is a big difference between the occasional "Drop the Hammer, on an Empty Chamber" for Safety reasons, and Dozens of the same, for practice.

D'oh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: NitroX]
      #374638 - 01/03/23 12:29 PM

Quote:

Dry firing is a standard at my new pistol club. After showing the action/ chamber is clear, one closed the slide and is told to dry fire the hammer down.



I don't understand this thinking. The only possible safety aspect is if for some reason the shooter did not clear the chamber or magazine and then the act of dry firing would clear the gun albeit with an AD. Provided the dry firing was carried out with the gun pointed down range I suppose it would be safer than inadvertently carrying and putting a loaded gun away.
However an AD would be totally unacceptable on any shooting range and the shooter would, or should be, heavily censured for that careless act.

In the world of clay target shooting shotguns must be carried open and empty at all times other than empty and closed while racked or loaded and closed when it is the shooters turn to shoot. At no time does anyone dry fire their shotgun, not that I have observed anyway after years of comp shooting. Shotguns remain cocked with the safety off as nobody wants to risk losing a bird because they left their safety on.

Dry firing a pistol after clearing the action and chamber achieves nothing safety wise because there must be a deliberate action later to insert a loaded mag and work the slide or charge the cylinder to load the gun when ready to use again.

Your club needs to re-evaluate that rule, I certainly wouldn't be dry firing a handgun without snap caps. Here in too lies a conundrum where a mix-up between snap caps and live ammo could occur especially if snap caps have been homemade on empty cases. Don't want another Alec Baldwin do we.

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DarylS
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Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: eagle27]
      #374644 - 01/03/23 01:50 PM

We were taught to dry-fire practice with our "empty" service revolvers for 2 reasons. It got us used to them and the trigger control on DA firing and after thousands of dry fires and shooting, they would smooth up a bit.
Taking the side plate off and filling the cavity with pearl drops toothpaste quickened up the smoothing operation on mine and my Instructor Partner's M10's when working in corrections.
I took them both home, and did this while watching TV over 2 evenings - until I could not pull the triggers any more, then
took them apart, flushed them out and re-oiled. Man, did they EVER have nice DA pulls after that.
The design of the revolvers allows dry firing. That SA design did not.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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JHeath
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Reged: 26/07/21
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Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: DarylS]
      #379808 - 03/10/23 01:31 PM

Quote:

We were taught to dry-fire practice with our "empty" service revolvers for 2 reasons. It got us used to them and the trigger control on DA firing and after thousands of dry fires and shooting, they would smooth up a bit. . . .
The design of the revolvers allows dry firing. That SA design did not.



OP has a PPK so it's DA, A-okay that way.

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Rule303
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Re: Okay to dry fire? [Re: JHeath]
      #379821 - 04/10/23 08:42 AM

I believe the dry fire on ranges at the end of a session emanates from the Military "Ease Springs" It was done so the firing pin spring was not under tension as it was believed this would shorten the life of the spring. It also did double duty of making sure nobody left the firing line with a live round in the chamber.

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