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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9038
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

in the end realy something new?
#374300 - 20/02/23 08:29 PM

first time a new cartridge realy seems to be different

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW-4Upi49Yc

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39893
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: in the end realy something new? [Re: lancaster]
#374302 - 20/02/23 10:37 PM

A .338 Blackout with an extreme 1 in 3 inch barrel twist rate.

Not using gel like in the video, how unstable are those projectiles if they hit heavy bone? Used on a Cape Buffalo? But not shown on a video. In reality shooting a cake buffalo. .338 at 2100 fps bullet is no big deal 90% of the time. A 7x57 can kill a buffalo.

Different. I don't have the knowledge to cut through the hype to the facts.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: in the end realy something new? [Re: NitroX]
#374312 - 21/02/23 04:53 AM

Either super stable or super unstable? Maybe both ie: irregular?

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9038
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: in the end realy something new? [Re: DarylS]
#374321 - 21/02/23 06:56 AM

at least the hole in the ballistic gel looks very impressive

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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fuhrmann
.333 member

Reged: 04/01/05
Posts: 328
Loc: Switzerland

Re: in the end realy something new? [Re: lancaster]
#374335 - 21/02/23 05:41 PM

Hi Lancaster

I do not think this is a new concept. It is so old that you forgot again:
a smallish case, rather large caliber, for an autoloader.

Remember this one, we discussed it years ago:
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=326646&an=0&page=4#Post326646

Mannlicher selfloading rifle, ca. 1904/05, caliber probably 9,3x38

And then the Russian 9x39 cartridge, from the 1980s or so

And the newer .366 TKM
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015...-sks-ak-rifles/

fuhrmann

Edited by fuhrmann (21/02/23 05:45 PM)

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9038
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: in the end realy something new? [Re: fuhrmann]
#374351 - 22/02/23 06:01 AM

you can't impress me with a new cartridge because there is nothing new under sun and this one looks a little bit unporportional too.
what is making this more interesting here is the screwed wound cavity in the ballistic gel

it looks like the monolithic bullet flying with 500000 rpm into the target gives this very unusual picture

in the end abnormal and I dare to say you have to pay a price for this. the barrel will be probably worn much quicker than normal but concept looks new and strange enough.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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93x64mm
.416 member

Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4204
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: in the end realy something new? [Re: fuhrmann]
#374353 - 22/02/23 06:55 AM

Quote:

Hi Lancaster

And then the Russian 9x39 cartridge, from the 1980s or so

And the newer .366 TKM
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015...-sks-ak-rifles/

I don't mean to hijack the thread - but this really is a nifty little piece, rifle & shotgun round rolled into one & with a paradox arrangement as well!

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado

Re: in the end realy something new? [Re: 93x64mm]
#374355 - 22/02/23 11:23 AM

I'm just confused that this cartridge was developed simply to be used in a 1 in 3" twist barrel.

Why not use any short, fat, mid-bore cartridge with a super fast twist?
You'd get the same results.

It's not as though we need some magical help from another wonder cartridge in dropping game animals.

Also, I'd bet that the 8.5mm bullet was chosen to eliminate the bullet petals from breaking off which makes the spinning effect through the gel more impressive.

Pretty neat experiment, but as mentioned above, barrel life with that twist and mono bullets will be quite short...

And, is there a limit in twist rate as it pertains to bolt actions vs auto loaders when pressures are concerned?
Does a fast twist (especially something as radical as 1 in 3) raise pressures to unacceptable ranges?

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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sharps4590
.333 member

Reged: 09/03/16
Posts: 270
Loc: Missouri Ozarks

Re: in the end realy something new? [Re: Huvius]
#374356 - 22/02/23 11:38 AM

Is this a solution to a non-existent problem? An answer to a question never asked? Or, just seeing if it can be done? An extreme case of mental masturbation?

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Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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Bindi2
.275 member

Reged: 03/03/11
Posts: 80
Loc: WA, Aust

Re: in the end realy something new? [Re: sharps4590]
#374358 - 22/02/23 12:27 PM

It is a solution to the banning of high speed and or large calibres

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: in the end realy something new? [Re: Bindi2]
#374361 - 22/02/23 02:07 PM

Just started watching the video - couldn't stand his squeaky voice.
Ross Seyfried shot a cape buffalo with a .500 Linebeau revolver with 7" bl. No biggie.
I've heard of a guy shooting 2 cape buffalo with one shot, from a Marlin .45/70. So?? LOL

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9038
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: in the end realy something new? [Re: DarylS]
#374368 - 22/02/23 07:01 PM

first, its an interesting experiment what can be done.

think the short case and the big bullet is no coincidense because with a long case( big powder load) and a small bullet the bullet maybe will not take the heavy rotation in the end. maybe a full metal jacket will not take the spin but disintegrad in the barrel under the extreme force so a solid bullet is a must.

this are trials what happen if you leave the "normal" like a 308 Win. the new US army 6,8 mm cartridge is a similar nonsense in my eyes. get more speed form a short barrel?
yes, can be done but only with higher pressure bringing more wear and tear on the gun.

a cartridge like the 308 Win is the common sense and it will be because physics dont change

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39893
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: in the end realy something new? [Re: lancaster]
#374373 - 22/02/23 10:37 PM

I think Cape Buffalo is pushing it. Of course if it penetrates with selected shots it can kill. So can a .243 with good bullets and selected shots.

It's the non selected shots where more gun is needed. And when sub-standard cartridges are not good choices. In the high grass, thick close hurried shots in thick Jesse, the inevitable dangerous follow ups on a wounded beast. Then a .500 NE double rifle is desirable.

An advantage of an AR10 is the ability to fire lots of quick to make up for lack of knock down power.

IF we could have AR15s and AR10s and suppressors I would have a 5.56 with .300 Blackout barrels. An 8.6 might have some purpose?

But the 8.6 is very much a shorter range cartridge isn't it?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: in the end realy something new? [Re: NitroX]
#374383 - 23/02/23 03:05 AM

At what range does it stop expanding, would be the question for me along with it's trajectory, being a low velocity round.
The .358 Winchester or .338 Federal are much better rifle ctg.(s) overall.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States

Re: in the end realy something new? [Re: DarylS]
#374627 - 01/03/23 04:38 AM

It's a fun experiment, but in the end I believe it's a cartridge looking for a purpose.

Nothing it can do seems any better then what other older cartridge can do, and most do better.

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