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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder

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bouldersmith
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Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 611
Loc: Boulder Colorado
Charles Lancaster percussion sporting rifle
      #364821 - 22/04/22 08:19 PM

18 bore, two groove rifle that needs a small amount of restoration. This should be a fun one.











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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Charles Lancaster percussion sporting rifle [Re: bouldersmith]
      #364822 - 22/04/22 08:55 PM

Nice!

Curly

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kuduae
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Re: Charles Lancaster percussion sporting rifle [Re: CptCurl]
      #364823 - 22/04/22 08:57 PM

Two-groove rifling as well as oval bore were invented in 1832 by then captain Carl W.E. Berner (1785 – 1862), Duke of Brunswick’s foot guards, jaeger company. His original design had an oval bore, soon modified to two distinctive grooves. In 1837 Berner’s two-groove rifling was adopted by the British military as a feature of their “Brunswick rifle”.

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bouldersmith
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Re: Charles Lancaster percussion sporting rifle [Re: kuduae]
      #364826 - 22/04/22 10:51 PM

from the books:

1849 2ft 8in barrels 'thin patch' sold to J. Drummond.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Charles Lancaster percussion sporting rifle [Re: bouldersmith]
      #364832 - 23/04/22 02:24 AM

Cool. 18 bore, roughly .64".
How much windage with the bullets? This will determine the patch thickness (compressed).
6oz. denim .015" 8 ounce .018" 10 ounce .021".
These measurements depend on the manufacturer of the cloth to some extent.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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bouldersmith
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Re: Charles Lancaster percussion sporting rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #364844 - 23/04/22 08:10 AM

The rife will not be with me until this summer, it is still in the UK. I will measure the projectiles to get an idea of what thickness patch to use. Without throwing it on a scale first to see what the gun weighs, my guess is that it is a 3-4 dram rifle but I will see.

The quality of Lancaster guns from the percussion period is superb, I'm excited to get it.

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LRF
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Reged: 28/03/11
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Loc: minnesota ,usa
Re: Charles Lancaster percussion sporting rifle [Re: bouldersmith]
      #364850 - 23/04/22 07:40 PM

Very nice rifle Steven and I certainly can understand your excitement to be getting it.
On subject but from a different angle what fascinates me is what the rifling head and cutter looked like. In the mid-19th century machining/manufacturing, albeit skilled and precise, was archaic compared with 20th and now 21st century machining. Even at very light cuts the size and shape of the rifling grooves would require a fair amount of cutting force to scrape them out. And in the days prior to high speed steel tool sharpening and maintenance would be quite time consuming and a big deal.
And along the lines are the tools used for cutting the mold. The cherry shape needed to cut the mold cavity would be unique and fragile to cut the long sprue stem. If you have ever cut bullet molds you will understand my awhh at the machinists skill.


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DarylSModerator
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Re: Charles Lancaster percussion sporting rifle [Re: LRF]
      #364854 - 24/04/22 01:55 AM

The crown has a nicely radiused shape as well, to help fold the cloth and mould the slug into the bore.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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bouldersmith
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Re: Charles Lancaster percussion sporting rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #371720 - 22/11/22 09:12 AM

The rifle arrived a while back and I'm just getting around to playing with it. It is a nice rifle that still needs a bit of love. Some small wood repairs were required, I fashioned up a temporary Hickory ramrod until I get the time to make a proper ebony replacement, a new nipple was fit to the oddball threads(.235"x32tpi), I lucked out and the barrel key was there so I thought I was ready to give it a go, not quite. The thinnest patch material I had on hand was .010" and that was just too thick. Some .005" pre-lubed patches are headed my way. It is a much lighter weight rifle than my Wm. Moore 14 bore 2 groove rifle, it weighs 6&3/4 lbs. The rifle is bored tighter than expected as well, the bullets drop at right around .620". I'm thinking 2&1/2 to 3 drams max.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Charles Lancaster percussion sporting rifle [Re: bouldersmith]
      #371723 - 22/11/22 11:26 AM

What is the actual bore and groove diameter?
I am surprised that .010" is too thick.
Dark stained green or purple heart was also used. Ramin would also stain well.
Rosewood as well, but unlikely stain well due to the oil content.
Osage makes a WONDERFUL rod.
Can you measure the rate of twist? (patch on jag) .620 is between 19 and 20 bore.
Might have to use a card or felt barrier wad under the patched slug if you can't even use a .0210" patch

Ballistic Products sells a dry 20 bore X 1/4" felt wad that measures about .626" in diameter. It's difficult as it compresses very easily.
Soaked in BP bullet lube like SPG compressed & hardened might help. Lyman BP Gold as well as well as 60% BW:40%
Vaseline is also a good Black Powder bullet lube.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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bouldersmith
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Re: Charles Lancaster percussion sporting rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #371730 - 23/11/22 01:57 AM

I misstated the bullet diameter, bore diameter is right around .620", bullet is smaller. I have not checked twist rate or groove diameter since I have the mould. Lubed felt patches and hard wads are both on hand. I have a long enough section of Ebony to make a proper rod but just don't have the time to make one before I hope to hunt this rifle in December.

I may need a help group...3 more British percussion rifles are on the way, 2 Purdey's(.50 cal and a 16 bore) and a Westley Richards(.50 cal).

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Edited by bouldersmith (23/11/22 01:58 AM)


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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
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Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Charles Lancaster percussion sporting rifle [Re: bouldersmith]
      #371764 - 24/11/22 12:51 PM

Quote:

I misstated the……..(snip)…..
I may need a help group...3 more British percussion rifles are on the way, 2 Purdey's(.50 cal and a 16 bore) and a Westley Richards(.50 cal).



Hmmm…….comment aimed at anyone in particular?

- Mike

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