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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Handguns
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Scrumbag
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Loc: Geneva, Switzerland
Handguns on Safari and Shikar
      #371350 - 11/11/22 10:16 PM

Hello all,

Hope this finds everybody well.

I am doing a little research project into handguns that have been taken on Safari and Shikar.

If anyone has seen mention of handguns taken on hunting trips as sidearms, please put a post up.

Just title and author would be great, but if you have more info it would be welcome.

Thanks in advance,

Scrummy

--------------------
98s: 9.3x62 & 7x64
.22s: Browning SA-22 & FN Trombone
Short-jobs: Sig P226 9mm, S&W25 .45 Colt, Colt Woodsman, S&W17

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Marrakai
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: Scrumbag]
      #371354 - 11/11/22 11:53 PM

Plenty of youtube footage of African PH's strapping on Glocks in preparation for a guided hunt.
They never mention model or caliber, and never elaborate on whether the hardware is precautionary against lions, poachers, or thugs.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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tinker
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: Marrakai]
      #371358 - 12/11/22 02:38 AM

Working with Jack Huntington, I see many 475 and 500 caliber revolvers built for getting over to Africa for use in the field on dangerous game

The rules over there change from time to time, as does interpretation although there are dedicated handgun hunters getting through Africa

I have seen films of fellows using 10mm autoloaders in the field on game in Africa, some examples are (or were) on YouTube

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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tinker
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: tinker]
      #371359 - 12/11/22 02:44 AM

In the right side background of this photo there's a Cape Buffalo

Placed atop the head is a 500JRH cartridge, a cartridge of Jack's design, which he used to take that animal, on safari in Africa



I have somewhere a photo of him with the animal and his revolver from the field

I'll put it up here when I get it into a format fit for posting

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: tinker]
      #371360 - 12/11/22 02:48 AM

Ross Seyfried .500 Linebau cape buffalo - Rifle or Handloader Magazine, back in the 1990's I think.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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poprivit
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: DarylS]
      #371364 - 12/11/22 03:30 AM

I've taken a stink bull giraffe and a lion with my S&W 500. I THINK I have some photos - will look.

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Scrumbag
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: poprivit]
      #371369 - 12/11/22 04:36 AM

Thanks folks, keep them coming, the modern stuff is helpful.

Anything more from the "golden age" of Safari and Shikar? - Doesn't have to be what was used to hunt with, just mentioned in a book as taken on the trip.

Best wishes,

Scrummy

--------------------
98s: 9.3x62 & 7x64
.22s: Browning SA-22 & FN Trombone
Short-jobs: Sig P226 9mm, S&W25 .45 Colt, Colt Woodsman, S&W17

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85lc
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: Scrumbag]
      #371376 - 12/11/22 08:00 AM

I would thionk that if you are talking 1890s - 1020s, there would be a few Mauser 96s, Webleys, Colt SA & 1911s, & S&Ws. Probably some of the vintage hynting books discuss pistols.

--------------------
RB

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: 85lc]
      #371392 - 12/11/22 02:25 PM

W.D.M. Bell used a Mauser C96 broom handle pistol in the Karamojo while ivory hunting. Famously used to shoot rapid fire several zebras when Karamojo morani were crowding in and acting threatening into his camp. Demonstrated firepower.

A Mauser C96 would be handy as a defensive weapon in the wilds and savage lands around the early 1900s. Rapid fire with the reported "most powerful handgun in the world" at the time, would be invaluable. When a lot of firearms were still single shots. Put a holster stock on it and very handy.

Regarding self defensive rapid fire weapons, I've always thought a good lever action the close in "assault rifle" of 1900. A .44/40, lots of stocking power at closer ranges.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: NitroX]
      #371393 - 12/11/22 02:36 PM

Look up the Johnson's (OSA & ?) Lake Paradise arsenal listing on an NE thread. Certainly will have some six-guns.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: NitroX]
      #371394 - 12/11/22 02:48 PM

Quote:

Look up the Johnson's (OSA & ?) Lake Paradise arsenal listing on an NE thread. Certainly will have some six-guns.



Osa & Martin Johnson's Lake Paradise arsenal
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=57680&an=&page=0&vc=1

Quote:
Martin and Osa Johnson spent four years at "Lake Paradise" in Northern Kenya on the Eithiopian (then Absynnia) border. This was their second sojourn to the Lake to take photos and film of the wildlife.

They armed themselves with the following 'arsenal':

3 English Blands - .470 NE - double barrel
1 English Bland - .275 - Mannlicher action
1 American Springfield - .303 - Mauser action
1 English Rigby - .505 - Mauser action
3 American Winchesters - .405 - lever action
1 American Winchester - .32 - lever action
2 English Jeffrey's - .404 - Mauser action
1 American Winchester shotgun - 12g - repeating
1 American Parker - 12g - double barrel
1 American Ithaca - 20g - double barrel
1 American Ithaca - 20g - sawed off shotgun, called riot gun
1 .38 Colt revolver
1 .45 Colt revolver


Reference: "I Married Adventure" by Osa Johnson, 1940

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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eagle27
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: NitroX]
      #371395 - 12/11/22 02:50 PM

John 'Pondoro' Taylor used his 455 Webley service revolver to take out a lion and hyena or two that were sneaking around camp at night. There is a chapter in his book 'African Rifles and Cartridges' on the use of handguns in Africa. He wrote that the Americans would often have a handgun on the hip when hunting whereas the English thought that was being too much of a cowboy and not the thing to be seen doing. Subsequently a few paid with their lives where a handgun would have saved them.

Taylor proposed a small semi-auto with suitable FMJ bullets as being the most suitable to carry and have to hand if a cat got you down so you could blow it's brain out while it chewed the other arm. The big heavy Webley was too heavy to tote around normally, but Taylor said any handgun was better than trying to hold off a cat by hand.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: NitroX]
      #371396 - 12/11/22 02:53 PM

These sorts of handguns were quite commonly used as well on shikar.



http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=337609&an=&page=0&vc=1

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: NitroX]
      #371397 - 12/11/22 02:55 PM

Scrumbag, modern usage. Don Heath did an article in African Hunter magazine on defensive use of handguns used by PHs. Tested on an elephant skull. The .357 penetrated the best.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: eagle27]
      #371398 - 12/11/22 03:00 PM

Quote:

John 'Pondoro' Taylor used his 455 Webley service revolver to take out a lion and hyena or two that were sneaking around camp at night. There is a chapter in his book 'African Rifles and Cartridges' on the use of handguns in Africa. He wrote that the Americans would often have a handgun on the hip when hunting whereas the English thought that was being too much of a cowboy and not the thing to be seen doing. Subsequently a few paid with their lives where a handgun would have saved them.

Taylor proposed a small semi-auto with suitable FMJ bullets as being the most suitable to carry and have to hand if a cat got you down so you could blow it's brain out while it chewed the other arm. The big heavy Webley was too heavy to tote around normally, but Taylor said any handgun was better than trying to hold off a cat by hand.



Good one. I was going to mention the Webley but didn't have an actual reference. Many a British official, serving or ex officer would have carried one.



http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=251275&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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85lc
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: NitroX]
      #371410 - 13/11/22 12:49 AM

Mauser C96s seem to have been very popular with the Brits - Churchill used one in SA.

However, I find the C-96 to be somewhat awkard and has a few sharp edges that don't feel great under recoil. (A friend with smaller hnds said he didn't notic the two sharp edges when shooting my C-96)

As a carry gun around 1915 or later, I would opt for a 1911 or, second best, a big Colt DA 45. The 1911 is easier to carry, reasonably accurate, & with spare mag, enough gun to keep someone comfortable.

--------------------
RB

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Scrumbag
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: 85lc]
      #371728 - 22/11/22 11:25 PM

Thanks folks, keep them coming!

--------------------
98s: 9.3x62 & 7x64
.22s: Browning SA-22 & FN Trombone
Short-jobs: Sig P226 9mm, S&W25 .45 Colt, Colt Woodsman, S&W17

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jvw
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: Marrakai]
      #371738 - 23/11/22 11:47 AM

Quote:

Plenty of youtube footage of African PH's strapping on Glocks in preparation for a guided hunt.
They never mention model or caliber, and never elaborate on whether the hardware is precautionary against lions, poachers, or thugs.



From having owned a few Glocks myself when I lived in Africa I can tell you that they are mostly meant for protection against the two-legged variety of danger. They come in handy when delivering a coup de grace as well, from time to time.

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Marrakai
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: jvw]
      #371739 - 23/11/22 12:48 PM

Quote:

protection against the two-legged variety


That was certainly the impression I got from the deliberate lack of elaboration on the youtube clips.

I was trying to leave that un-said...

For clients hunting though, obviously the big revolver is king,
with purpose-built single-shots in rifle calibres nipping at their heels.

Good account of the latter here if you haven't seen it, Scrumbag.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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85lc
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: Marrakai]
      #371787 - 25/11/22 10:44 AM

Marrakai,

Thanks for posting the article on the 375JDJ. That entire JDJ series was very interesting and unfortunately, people seem to have lost interest in handgun hunting, at least with SS pistols.

I had a 9.3JDJ which was very accurate and a good thumper. I was always aware when it shot althougnthe recoil was not as notiveable as a 444Marlin in a RPM XL. I sold the 9.3JDJ only because I also had a contender in 375Win which did all I needed.

--------------------
RB

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: 85lc]
      #379145 - 07/09/23 05:01 PM

Gentlemen, if you carried a handgun on safari, or Asian shikar, assuming the latter was still possible, what handgun would you strap to your hip, orbin a shoulder holster?

And why, for what?

Btw Malaysia/Borneo hunts seem to be taking placecagain. I've seen water buffalo and saltwater crocodile trophy photos.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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degoins
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: NitroX]
      #379154 - 07/09/23 11:21 PM

A 4" barreled Smith and Wesson Model 29 or 629 as a last ditch if a cat grabbed me and I didn't die immediately and for 2 legged threats.

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9.3x57
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: degoins]
      #379158 - 07/09/23 11:42 PM

I had a Ruger .44 Mag Super Blackhawk which I was going to bring to SA when we moved over there. No problems w/ RSA rules and regs but found out only too late that I couldn't bring it into NYC & then JFK airport so swapped it for an old transition model 36/336 Ruger .30-30 which I added a Williams peep sight to and zeroed in my parents parsonage basement, lying down on the concrete and shooting into a backstop made of stacked firewood.

Once in Natal I took it to "the Back 40" and along w/ my other guns checked zero. It needed little adjustment and I wound up shooting a big buck vervet monkey with it on a very enjoyable hunt along with an old Zulu farm hand during which we saw a huge python & dodged a green mamba. The old fellow had two iron-hard (ironwood?) knobkerries he carried for self protection. I gave him 10 Rand note for one and still have it, tho I do not have the Marlin. Used that knob stick to kill a trapped coyote some years ago and it was the fastest kill of anything I've ever used. One strike and it was light out. Not a twitch. Pic before, below.

(Sorry for the offtopic droning Nitro!)



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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9.3x57
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: 9.3x57]
      #379160 - 07/09/23 11:55 PM

Nitro: I remember reading that when George Adamson of "Born Free" notoriety was ambushed he used a .38 revolver against the AK-armed bandits/murderers. He lost of course.

I am guessing that there are a LOT of ex-service weapons...Webley's, Enfields, Smith and Wesson M&P .38/200's and .38 Specials in the possession of pros and locals as well. I remember .38/200 S&W's were cheap when I was in RSA '88-'89. I almost bought one.

Capstick referenced Bob Langeveldt strolling along after a cull, just for insurance, popping downed elephant with a Browning High Power.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
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Re: Handguns on Safari and Shikar [Re: 9.3x57]
      #379163 - 08/09/23 02:11 AM

I'd prefer to carry my 4" M29. I shoot it well and quickly. 20gr. W296 or H110 and hard cast 300gr. FN.
I suppose a cat might ne better dealt with using 180 gr. HPS at 1,400fps. Maybe it doesn't matter.
My little Colt Poice Positive .38SPL would remain home. It also shoots well, but I trust the .38, not at all.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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