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Dogfish858
.300 member


Reged: 08/08/15
Posts: 190
Loc: Western Canada
Extreme Cold
      #371306 - 11/11/22 12:59 AM

Yesterday I was hunting in -31 C with wind and light fog for combined values of about -39 C. Darn cold. Lots of deer. However, my rifle wouldn't behave. It wouldn't feed properly and in a couple notable cases, wouldn't fire -- it acted like the safety was on. This is in a P-H Safari based on a VZ 24 action, Recknagle trigger. Last year in warm weather it was perfect. The rifle is not lubricated but that has never been an issue. I've had Sakos freeze to inoperable in this weather but has anybody had this issue with any other Mausers?

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But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?


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85lc
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Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 882
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: Dogfish858]
      #371307 - 11/11/22 01:41 AM

Dogfish858,
That is too bad. What could have caused your rifle to not function. I always thought (and read) that problem was due to frozen lubricants but, as you say, the rifle isn't lubricated.

--------------------
RB


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Dogfish858
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Reged: 08/08/15
Posts: 190
Loc: Western Canada
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: 85lc]
      #371309 - 11/11/22 01:57 AM

On thinking on it I think the cocking piece was frozen in place because re cocking would get rid of it. Happened twice while aiming at a deer.

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But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: Dogfish858]
      #371311 - 11/11/22 03:18 AM

Quote:

Yesterday I was hunting in -31 C with wind and light fog for combined values of about -39 C. Darn cold. Lots of deer. However, my rifle wouldn't behave. It wouldn't feed properly and in a couple notable cases, wouldn't fire -- it acted like the safety was on. This is in a P-H Safari based on a VZ 24 action, Recknagle trigger. Last year in warm weather it was perfect. The rifle is not lubricated but that has never been an issue. I've had Sakos freeze to inoperable in this weather but has anybody had this issue with any other Mausers?




has only happened to me a maybe twice in my life hunting in extreme cold.. I took the bolt out of the rifle and put it inside my jacket for a while to warm it up a bit..them pulled it out and dry fired it a couple times.. worked for the rest of the day that time...

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1634
Loc: Finland
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: Dogfish858]
      #371313 - 11/11/22 03:23 AM

When hunting in such cold conditions the old rule is cleaning all oil away from rifles lock. This has been tested in Finnish Winter War when our guns worked properly but russians didn´t.

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Re: Extreme Cold [Re: Igorrock]
      #371314 - 11/11/22 03:25 AM

Quote:

When hunting in such cold conditions the old rule is cleaning all oil away from rifles lock. This has been tested in Finnish Winter War when our guns worked properly but russians didn´t.




+1.

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Dogfish858
.300 member


Reged: 08/08/15
Posts: 190
Loc: Western Canada
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: Ripp]
      #371316 - 11/11/22 03:35 AM

Duly noted. I'll take it down and wash it in alcohol. I thought I had it clean enough. The whole rifle was like a different rifle from last year when at this time it was 10+C during the days.

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?

Edited by Dogfish858 (11/11/22 03:38 AM)


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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member


Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 284
Loc: Montana
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: Dogfish858]
      #371317 - 11/11/22 03:41 AM

I think alcohol, carb cleaner, or acetone will throughly degrease it. Only other suggestion is to leave it cold after you do so, outside, on a porch, unheated garage, etc. Bringing a cold gun inside can attract condensation that can then refreeze, and it doesn't take much ice inside a bolt to cause just enough friction to be an issue. If you bring it inside just be sure it is there long enough for any moisture to evaporate.

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Extreme Cold [Re: Dogfish858]
      #371318 - 11/11/22 03:42 AM

That's a good idea. It doesn't take much oil to seize it up.
Trouble some of us has found with our muzzleloaders, is breaking main springs in -40 weather. We stopped shooting in that weather, some decades ago.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Extreme Cold [Re: DarylS]
      #371342 - 11/11/22 03:11 PM

Not a problem here! I'd die in such a temperature.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: NitroX]
      #371361 - 12/11/22 03:02 AM

The air sparkles with ice crystals - it's quite beautiful. Just don't breath too deeply. Caribou chased by wolves freeze their lungs.The coldest we've seen here was in the 1990's -56C. Bit of arctic air sweeping down. Only 2 of us showed up for day shift out of about 35 people. No one else got their cars or trucks running. I was running a Chevy Blaser Diesel at the time. It was plugged in to the block heater, but it took a blast of ether to get her fired up and running.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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jgrabow
.300 member


Reged: 22/12/08
Posts: 222
Loc: Winter Wisconsin
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: DarylS]
      #371366 - 12/11/22 03:40 AM

I started a new job 1985 and missed Wisconsin deer season. My brother borrowed my pre 81 BLR in 358 Win. Thanksgiving day in northern Wisconsin the temp was -33C. Needless to say the rifle was frozen solid. He drove a full size Ford Bronco. The snow was deep enough that he moved snow when opening the doors. An older person from his work place accompanied him on that trip but had bad knees and could not hunt in that deep snow. He decided to ice fish since they stayed at a resort on a lake. He said he never had such fantastic fishing in his life. He was clearing the ice from the holes he drilled in the ice with his bare hands and ended up with frost bitten fingers. Some of the hazards playing in those conditions.

Edited by jgrabow (12/11/22 03:42 AM)


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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: DarylS]
      #371367 - 12/11/22 03:52 AM

Quote:

The coldest we've seen here was in the 1990's -56C.




Damn!

That's cold

I think our walk-in deep freezer at the lab was -35c
That was pretty cool, -56 is a whole different level of cold

Lowest we get here in the high desert is in the negative teens Fahrenheit

We too get the ice crystals suspended in the air
Really neat optical effect

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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mckinney
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Reged: 29/01/09
Posts: 1212
Loc: usa
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: tinker]
      #371379 - 12/11/22 09:16 AM

Would graphite lubricant be of any use in these situations?

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FlatTop45
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Reged: 31/05/16
Posts: 131
Loc: South Texas, U.S.A.
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: mckinney]
      #371384 - 12/11/22 11:21 AM

Here in South Texas, whenever the temperature drops below 60 Fahrenheit, most people are digging out jackets and sweaters. So to us, extreme cold would be the temp dropping below freezing longer than a few hours.

However, I do remember reading an article in National Geographic long ago about a man who was traveling solo across the Arctic by dogsled. He mentions carrying a rifle in case of Polar Bears (in fact he had to kill one that got way too nosy!). He mentions soaking the action in Kerosene to lubricate and keep it from freezing up. As I said, I have zero experience when it comes to that kind of cold, but that's what he said.

Being more of a "Tropical Bird" myself (I prefer to hunt and fish wearing shorts), if I ever were to experience cold like that, my balls would crawl so far up inside me, it would be August before they dropped again!!!






J

Edited by FlatTop45 (12/11/22 11:29 AM)


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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1397
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: FlatTop45]
      #371388 - 12/11/22 12:43 PM

I have read accounts of GI's and US Marines during the Korea war in bitter Winter cold cleaning their weapons with plain old MOGAS (gasoline) no extra lube at all. The days of M-1 Garand, M-1/M-2 Carbine, and 1911 .45 Auto. Heaven only knows what the Norks and Chinks did in the same situation.
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
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Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: 3DogMike]
      #371400 - 12/11/22 03:12 PM

The presences of light fog indicates there was still moisture in the air despite the very cold temperature and even the act of breathing warm moist air over your rifle when bring it to shoulder could lead to condensation freezing around the firing pin and spring enough to lock it or slow it down. Even if the firing pin is driven forward, it doesn't take very much in slowing it down (lightning the blow) to result in misfires.

Even if all oil is cleaned out of the bolt and off the spring and firing pin, that won't prevent condensation that forms inside the bolt from freezing. Maybe a spray of de-icing fluid before a 'cold' hunt would help. This type of fluid gets rid of ice and prevents it reforming for a while.

Just tell the deer to hold on while you get out your spray can and de-ice the bolt!!!!!!

Edited by eagle27 (12/11/22 03:15 PM)


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4882
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: mckinney]
      #371402 - 12/11/22 03:39 PM

Quote:

Would graphite lubricant be of any use in these situations?




Graphite powder yes, graphite grease no. Also, as said, any moisture that gets in could cause the problems.

The moisture and oil freezing caused problems with Fighter aircraft machine guns/cannons in the tropics in WW2. When they got up above 20000ft the gear would freeze up and only some or no guns would fire untill back down where it was warmmer.


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Dogfish858
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Reged: 08/08/15
Posts: 190
Loc: Western Canada
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: Rule303]
      #371413 - 13/11/22 02:48 AM

My inclination is that an action cleaned with white gas and brought to a good polish would be the best and probably the slickest action in the cold as you'd get a ball bearing effect as the metal hardened in the cold. The tolerances would change a measurable amount too. It's helpful to hear that just breathing on it would jam it up. That makes sense.

-56 (coldest I've felt is -52) is a terrible cold. It's not immediately noticeable but probably most closely feels like sitting in ice water -- at first it's fine, but then shortly after you find that you're cold all over and to the core, and you know in your gut that if you don't get warmer soon you'll die. It feels dangerous. But as Daryl said, it is beautiful, with perfect clarity and ice crystals sparkling in the air. Surprisingly, there are a ton of birds around in the winter.

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: Dogfish858]
      #371421 - 13/11/22 01:19 PM

As to cold..not quite as cold as Daryl..but 2010..drove to West Yellowstone Montana..left Bozeman it was -38F..by the time I got to WYS it was being reported on the local radio anywhere from -62F to -64F...never shut my vehicle off while I was there..refueled, added some addl gasoline antifreeze to the tank and made it the 90 miles back home..felt miserably cold

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 38869
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: Ripp]
      #371424 - 13/11/22 03:31 PM

Damn we need a bit of global warming ... Cool spring this year. Lovely. Maybe 18°C today. Brrrrr!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26307
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Re: Extreme Cold [Re: Ripp]
      #371435 - 14/11/22 03:30 PM

Quote:

As to cold..not quite as cold as Daryl..but 2010..drove to West Yellowstone Montana..left Bozeman it was -38F..by the time I got to WYS it was being reported on the local radio anywhere from -62F to -64F...never shut my vehicle off while I was there..refueled, added some addl gasoline antifreeze to the tank and made it the 90 miles back home..felt miserably cold




Methyl hydrate (fuel line antifreeze) is necessary, for sure. I was up Williston Lake at a logging camp in the late 90's, where we never shut the vehicles off.
The temp was pretty low, too low to work outside, -52 C seems to me. That's about -61F or so.
A logger, truck running low on fuel drove over to the pump and when he grabbed the pump handle, the hose broke off at the pump, spewing fuel oil. He got it shut off and grabbed the other hose on the other side of the pump. Same thing happened.
Better luck at the other pumps, either newer hoses, or out of the wind. Wind at that temp is a killer.
Problems with breaking truck frames, springs, etc. Steel give up at those temps.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4882
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: DarylS]
      #371436 - 14/11/22 08:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

As to cold..not quite as cold as Daryl..but 2010..drove to West Yellowstone Montana..left Bozeman it was -38F..by the time I got to WYS it was being reported on the local radio anywhere from -62F to -64F...never shut my vehicle off while I was there..refueled, added some addl gasoline antifreeze to the tank and made it the 90 miles back home..felt miserably cold




Methyl hydrate (fuel line antifreeze) is necessary, for sure. I was up Williston Lake at a logging camp in the late 90's, where we never shut the vehicles off.
The temp was pretty low, too low to work outside, -52 C seems to me. That's about -61F or so.
A logger, truck running low on fuel drove over to the pump and when he grabbed the pump handle, the hose broke off at the pump, spewing fuel oil. He got it shut off and grabbed the other hose on the other side of the pump. Same thing happened.
Better luck at the other pumps, either newer hoses, or out of the wind. Wind at that temp is a killer.
Problems with breaking truck frames, springs, etc. Steel give up at those temps.




So do I


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Extreme Cold [Re: Rule303]
      #371437 - 14/11/22 08:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:



Problems with breaking truck frames, springs, etc. Steel give up at those temps.




So do I




Me2!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Extreme Cold [Re: NitroX]
      #371443 - 15/11/22 01:26 AM

This popped up on FB memories this morning..10 years ago but remember it well.. was a balmy -24F that morning when we started to hunt..and hike up the mtn in search of mule deer..


231185_564759143539277_1824151744_n by A Hoffart, on Flickr

Gatorade didnt last long..
15177_564759256872599_537060757_n by A Hoffart, on Flickr

Ended well...
148508_564759076872617_714984258_n by A Hoffart, on Flickr

Its been a hell of a winter start so far in this area.. way below normal temps and lots of snow which is good..need a lot of snow to fill the creeks and resevoirs.. but man.. going to be a long one if this keeps up..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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