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NitroXAdministrator
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Jack O'Connor on the 6.5 Creedmoor
      #369689 - 01/10/22 01:37 AM

What Would Jack O’Connor Say About Long-Range Hunting and the 6.5 Creedmoor? His Work Already Tells Us
Outdoor Life’s legendary shooting editor gave a lot of advice, and held plenty of opinions that are still relevant today

BY TYLER FREEL | PUBLISHED DEC 14, 2021 6:13 PM

https://www.outdoorlife.com/opinion/jack-oconnor-long-range-hunting-new-calibers/

"Why bother when the 6.5x55 Swedish has existed since 1892!"


https://www.outdoorlife.com/uploads/2021/12/14/IMG_3129-1536x1152.jpg

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John aka NitroX

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DarylS
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Re: Jack O'Connor on the 6.5 Creedmoor [Re: NitroX]
      #369706 - 01/10/22 12:33 PM

Was looking at that first link and saw this statement:
"Jack O’Connor was an expert gunner"

He admitted that he averaged 3.8 shots to kill a B.C. moose.
Was this because he used deer bullets in his .270 to attempt to kill moose". I know a gal who also used a .270 for her moose and never needed more than one 150gr. or 160gr. Dominion/Imperial KKSP when she could get them.
I know lots of guys who have shot moose around here and at most, some take 2 shots if uncertain of the first one.

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Ripp
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Re: Jack O'Connor on the 6.5 Creedmoor [Re: DarylS]
      #369707 - 01/10/22 02:16 PM

Quote:

Was looking at that first link and saw this statement:
"Jack O’Connor was an expert gunner"

He admitted that he averaged 3.8 shots to kill a B.C. moose.
Was this because he used deer bullets in his .270 to attempt to kill moose". I know a gal who also used a .270 for her moose and never needed more than one 150gr. or 160gr. Dominion/Imperial KKSP when she could get them.
I know lots of guys who have shot moose around here and at most, some take 2 shots if uncertain of the first one.




My thoughts exactly..

As I posted when I saw this on Farcebook.. "Would be impossible for me to care any less what he thought"...

One thing you mention Daryl that caught my attention. And I do agree. The 270 is an excellent caliber for women, youth or anyone else of slight frame shy of recoil..

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Jack O'Connor on the 6.5 Creedmoor [Re: Ripp]
      #369716 - 01/10/22 04:51 PM

It's actually a rather weak attempt at saying O'Connor would approve of the 6.5 Creedmoor. .... Obviously the 6.5x55 if these guys had understood complicated metric ....

I'm going to create a new cartridge, the .264 Swedish ....

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DarylS
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Re: Jack O'Connor on the 6.5 Creedmoor [Re: NitroX]
      #369731 - 02/10/22 01:44 AM

I agree on the .270, Ripp. My buddy's wife uses a .270 for everything now. It was Keith's Mom's rifle. Deer, bear (she has used a .358 Win.) moose and elk with good bullets that O'Conner never used (that I know of). She also got a really nice Kudu with the rifle, using a 130gr. TSX - 1 shot & down.

I agree concerning the 6.5x55, especially in a Swedish Mil. fast twist rifle being everything, power-wise, the 6.5 Creedmoor is today.
The only advantage the Creedoor has is in guilt edge accuracy, not needed in a hunting rifle at hunting ranges.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: Jack O'Connor on the 6.5 Creedmoor [Re: DarylS]
      #369733 - 02/10/22 01:58 AM

Quote:

I agree on the .270, Ripp. My buddy's wife uses a .270 for everything now. It was Keith's Mom's rifle. Deer, bear (she has used a .358 Win.) moose and elk with good bullets that O'Conner never used (that I know of). She also got a really nice Kudu with the rifle, using a 130gr. TSX - 1 shot & down.

I agree concerning the 6.5x55, especially in a Swedish Mil. fast twist rifle being everything, power-wise, the 6.5 Creedmoor is today.
The only advantage the Creedoor has is in guilt edge accuracy, not needed in a hunting rifle at hunting ranges.




Agree--that and the CM can get by with the smaller action whereas the 6.5x55 is typically next size up..or so I'm told.. Believe SAAMI has it 2.825 vs 3.150...

The CM, per my experience is stupid accurate.. I have not shot it a LOT ..perhaps a few thousand rounds..but am always very happy with it..

ANOTHER STORY.. Last spring I picked up a Ruger American in 6 Creedmoor..only because during all the ammo shortage I always saw a lot of it sitting around.. FInally got around to shooting it last weekend.. Crazy for such an inexpensive rifle.. I was cleaning it between shots.. factory ammo.. 4 shot group .. .65 of an inch... going to be my fall truck gun..big enough to take most anything on the ranch and will reach right out there for coyotes..



--------------------
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DarylS
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Re: Jack O'Connor on the 6.5 Creedmoor [Re: Ripp]
      #369758 - 02/10/22 10:39 AM

Just picked up a box of 120gr. TTSX to try in my 6.5x55 Varberger Swedish rifle.
It likes 120gr. Sierras smoking along an 160gr., both Hornady and Sierras at 2,500fps.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: Jack O'Connor on the 6.5 Creedmoor [Re: DarylS]
      #369761 - 02/10/22 11:35 AM

Quote:

Just picked up a box of 120gr. TTSX to try in my 6.5x55 Varberger Swedish rifle.
It likes 120gr. Sierras smoking along an 160gr., both Hornady and Sierras at 2,500fps.




FortunatI am not saying the 375 doesnt work..I AM saying the 416 does it considerably better. Per my experience on buffalo and other game.

My first trip to Zim, my plains game rifle was a 300 RUM, the 180 Accubonds were blowing up on game, so ..for the next 20 days all I used was my 416.From Duiker to buffalo, it worked perfectly..used 400gr A-Frames..roughly2400fps.. same for solids, 400gr Barnes Solids.. Shot game from 50 yards to 265 (bushbuck)..

I really dont find the recoil of my 416 Rem to be bad at all.. 375 is less..but I stand by my statement that the .375 makes a perfect PG rifle in DG areas.. Your going to wish you had a 375 vs a .270 in your hand when you get charged by a tuskless in the dark sneaking into a blind.. YES, that did happen..Twice.. not both tuskless..

Fortunately its raining cats and dogs here tonight..SO, I am headed to the gun room to do a bit of reloading myself.. getting ready for elk season.. so, loading up some 175gr A-Frames for my 28 Nosler.. Love that caliber/rifle on elk.. a bit much for deer and antelope..My next choices are 300 and 338RUM's .. also work great on elk..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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prairie_ghost
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Re: Jack O'Connor on the 6.5 Creedmoor [Re: Ripp]
      #369765 - 02/10/22 01:55 PM

I've not seen any of the postings on farcebook nor will I as I do not subscribe but reading this thread what I have not seen mentioned is the construction of the bullets of the day. JC had at his disposable the best bullets offered likely all cup and core but nothing like today's bullets. I see you tout TSX, TTSX, accubonds to great success. Lighten up gentlemen, you have what he only dreamed about.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Jack O'Connor on the 6.5 Creedmoor [Re: Ripp]
      #369766 - 02/10/22 06:24 PM

My comments on the recoil of a .416 was on the general safari client. Simply most guys see even a .375 as a huge cartridge. What people write or say back home doesn't measure up to their actual experiences. The guys that buy a big rifle or double rifle for their safari and sell it again on return. Can't shoot it at all. PHs often comment privately most guys can't shoot for shit.

There is a very good reason why the .375 has always been considered the all-rounder. Because of 110 years of experience. Untold numbers of buffalo. And not too excessive recoil for plains game. It was marketed that way at the beginning. A 235, 270 and 300 gr cartridge choice. It remains one of the most popular, the most popular? "big bore" for buffalo. As the big rifle if the two.

I wonder how many people have tried shooting their 375, 416 etc from a lying prone position? It's a pretty normal field shooting position for medium game. My guess is the average safari client uses the bakkies shooting frame instead! Shooting prone at a target, OUCH! Is my opinion.

I've really been thinking about have I read any articles or stories of an all-rounder .416 where there was a fair amount of plains game hunting detailed? Maybe an animal or two, yes. There is always a second mu0edium rifle. I have read many a single .375 story. Some romantically minded guys only take a .375 for only plains game.

Other threads rave on about long range "hunting". I wonder what's the longest field shots people have made with a .375, .494, .416, .450?

Most of my hunting has been from 20 yards to less than a hundred. A kudu at maybe 150? .30-06, 9.3x74R 0, 8x68S and .375. in the NT I made a pleasing .375 shot at 250 yards on a dingo. 300 gr RNSP. Impressed even myself!

I've shot my .404 in 8 round rapid fire competition. I don't find it very pleasant doing that. Actually the .375 for the same. Eight rounds rapid fire, one does feel it. A bit of shock an awe afterwards. The same with a .30-06, mwah, easy. A .318 WR or .338/06 I think might be easier than a .375 or .404.

There is always an incremental benefit in going from a .330 to a 9.3 to a .375 to a 400 of some sort to a .450, 500, 577 etc for DG.

There is also a decremental decrease in fine accurate shooting ability as recoil increases.

Safari client hunting? One always has a PH to back up and hold ones hand. Hunting solo? I prefer my .450 DR.

Note again, big difference between people using their rifles a fair amount. And those on that "big once a lifetime safari" with a brand new hardly shot rifle.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DarylS
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Re: Jack O'Connor on the 6.5 Creedmoor [Re: prairie_ghost]
      #369786 - 03/10/22 03:03 AM

Quote:

I've not seen any of the postings on farcebook nor will I as I do not subscribe but reading this thread what I have not seen mentioned is the construction of the bullets of the day. JC had at his disposable the best bullets offered likely all cup and core but nothing like today's bullets. I see you tout TSX, TTSX, accubonds to great success. Lighten up gentlemen, you have what he only dreamed about.




My comments were concerning Jack's choice to use Winchester factory ammo or handloads using 130gr. Winch. Silver Tips.
He could have used 150gr. bullets, or when in Canada wounding moose with the 130's, he could have used the 160gr. Imperial or Dominion ammo loaded with 160gr. KKSP's.
All cup and core.
As well, he could have used Nosler Paritions, although the very early ones were not consistent.
He didn't, he used the 130gr. Silver Tips loaded from 3,000fps or 3,100fps with 60gr. of H4831.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: Jack O'Connor on the 6.5 Creedmoor [Re: NitroX]
      #369789 - 03/10/22 04:58 AM

Quote:

My comments on the recoil of a .416 was on the general safari client. Simply most guys see even a .375 as a huge cartridge. What people write or say back home doesn't measure up to their actual experiences. The guys that buy a big rifle or double rifle for their safari and sell it again on return. Can't shoot it at all. PHs often comment privately most guys can't shoot for shit.

There is a very good reason why the .375 has always been considered the all-rounder. Because of 110 years of experience. Untold numbers of buffalo. And not too excessive recoil for plains game. It was marketed that way at the beginning. A 235, 270 and 300 gr cartridge choice. It remains one of the most popular, the most popular? "big bore" for buffalo. As the big rifle if the two.

I wonder how many people have tried shooting their 375, 416 etc from a lying prone position? It's a pretty normal field shooting position for medium game. My guess is the average safari client uses the bakkies shooting frame instead! Shooting prone at a target, OUCH! Is my opinion.

I've really been thinking about have I read any articles or stories of an all-rounder .416 where there was a fair amount of plains game hunting detailed? Maybe an animal or two, yes. There is always a second mu0edium rifle. I have read many a single .375 story. Some romantically minded guys only take a .375 for only plains game.

Other threads rave on about long range "hunting". I wonder what's the longest field shots people have made with a .375, .494, .416, .450?

Most of my hunting has been from 20 yards to less than a hundred. A kudu at maybe 150? .30-06, 9.3x74R 0, 8x68S and .375. in the NT I made a pleasing .375 shot at 250 yards on a dingo. 300 gr RNSP. Impressed even myself!

I've shot my .404 in 8 round rapid fire competition. I don't find it very pleasant doing that. Actually the .375 for the same. Eight rounds rapid fire, one does feel it. A bit of shock an awe afterwards. The same with a .30-06, mwah, easy. A .318 WR or .338/06 I think might be easier than a .375 or .404.

There is always an incremental benefit in going from a .330 to a 9.3 to a .375 to a 400 of some sort to a .450, 500, 577 etc for DG.

There is also a decremental decrease in fine accurate shooting ability as recoil increases.

Safari client hunting? One always has a PH to back up and hold ones hand. Hunting solo? I prefer my .450 DR.

Note again, big difference between people using their rifles a fair amount. And those on that "big once a lifetime safari" with a brand new hardly shot rifle.





Sorry I posted this response on the wrong thread..

As to shooting prone..my first Impala I shot on my last trip to Zim was prone.. just a touch over 200 yrds.. especially in the custom shop Rem..its mild in recoil..at last for me..

As to the PH always being there..NOT always..also my experience... NOT trusting someone else with my welfare.. They have more experience, maybe..but I'm responsible for me..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Jack O'Connor on the 6.5 Creedmoor [Re: Ripp]
      #369801 - 03/10/22 06:31 PM

I want to know WDM Bell's opinion of Creedmoor. Some writer could make up more fictious bs on that cartridge.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Ripp
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Re: Jack O'Connor on the 6.5 Creedmoor [Re: NitroX]
      #369805 - 03/10/22 10:54 PM

Quote:

I want to know WDM Bell's opinion of Creedmoor. Some writer could make up more fictious bs on that cartridge.




He would have killed triple the amount of game had he had that cartridge available.. .. maybe more..its superiority can not be denied

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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