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kuduae
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: NitroX]
      #361491 - 04/02/22 05:28 AM

Quote:

The 8x50R was used as it feed through the magazine and no change to the bolt head. ???



Look at the bolt head of a Lee Speed: it is flat, 15 mm = .590 diameter, with no recess for the case rim. The 14 mm rim of the 8x50R Mannlicher fits. Just the extractor claw may need some adjustment. But there is no way a 8x50R Lebel with a 16 mm rim will pass through a Lee - Speed action.


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lancaster
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: kuduae]
      #361496 - 04/02/22 05:52 AM

austrian rifles for the old 8x50R and the newer 8x56R spitzer have a .329 groove diameter but I never see the diameter of a british lee speed for the .315 india. would be possible to use a .323 barrel for the 8x50R but I don't know what they did then. the indians without a doubt copy the old lee speed in all aspects but nobody outside of india get one into the hands. that makes the story so mysterious.

there was a 8x50R lee speed(?) for sale here last weeks but I had other problems













https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=14520022

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: lancaster]
      #361499 - 04/02/22 07:40 AM

Does anyone know what the .329/330 8x56R velocity would be with 244 gr bullet? Or a 250 gr bullet? Or a 225 gr projectile?

The reason I ask is I do have a Steyr straight pull NOT probably in 8x56R .330.

A 225 gr projectile at 2410 fps would satisfy Big Game Rifle Club Group One minimum requirements.

A cheapish 225 gr .338 projectile could be swaged down to .330.

Or a Bertram 250 gr .330 SP used if velocity enables 2,900 ft lbs.

I don't know if anyone makes a .330 244 gr projectile anymore?

A .318 WR or .338/06 is more than adequate. But the 9.5x57 mm M-S isn't anymore.

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Edited by NitroX (04/02/22 04:28 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: NitroX]
      #361500 - 04/02/22 09:03 AM



That's quite a nice one. Probably ex India.

What price did it go for?

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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260rem
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: NitroX]
      #361505 - 04/02/22 01:34 PM

240gn at 2000fps it sounds a bit like a souped up 44mag, one of those 45/70 conversions would be great for that sort of hunting.
But then that round seems to be doing the job just fine as it is.

What I find really interesting is the Leppards seem more of a problem then the tigers are.


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dracb
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: 260rem]
      #361506 - 04/02/22 04:37 PM

A leopard population that is more than four times the Tiger population combined with the leopard's higher adaptive capacity to humans and human settlements strongly suggests a potential for a greater number of human/leopard conflicts than human/tiger conflicts.

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lancaster
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: dracb]
      #361509 - 04/02/22 08:03 PM

the rifle probably sold for 500 euro, did not see it going

hornady have a .330 ,205 grains softpopint bullet for the 8x56R M 30
power is somewhere between 8x57IRS and 8x57IS

--------------------
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.
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Daryl_S
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: NitroX]
      #361521 - 05/02/22 06:28 AM

My buddy Keith has a 3-die set from Lee's custom shop for sizing .338's down to .330.
He also has a set of Lee custom dies for sizing down .323's to .315 for a #4 he has with that groove dia.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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kuduae
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: NitroX]
      #361523 - 05/02/22 07:11 AM

Quote:

A 225 gr projectile at 2410 fps would satisfy Big Game Rifle Club Group One minimum requirements.
A .318 WR or .338/06 is more than adequate. But the 9.5x57 mm M-S isn't anymore.



An outright silly rule imho!


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Daryl_S
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: lancaster]
      #361533 - 05/02/22 10:39 AM

Didn't the factory 8x56R run a 205 gr. about 2050fps?
found this:

5th load down, is interesting.

1938 nazi marked surplus ammo (2337 fps)

.330 Hornady 205 grain bullet (Graf and Sons) 44 gr IMR 4064, (2083 fps)

.330 Hornady 205 grain bullet 45.9 IMR 4895 (2168 fps)

.330 Hornady 205 grain bullet 46 grains Varget. (2155 fps)

.330 Hornady 205 grain bullet 47 grains IMR 3031. (2355 fps) Will never exceed.

.329 Bufallo 150 grain spire point 47 grains IMR 3031. (2489 fps) Will never exceed.

.329 Bufallo 150 spire point 46 grains Varget (2168 fps)

.329 Bufallo 150 spire point 44 grains IMR 4064. (2150 fps)

.329 Bufallo 150 spirepoint IMR 4895 46 grains. (2252 fps)

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Marrakai
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: Daryl_S]
      #361535 - 05/02/22 10:56 AM

Quote:

Lee custom dies for sizing down .323's to .315



I had a cunning plan to do this too, as an attempt to accommodate worn/oversize bores in old Lee Enfields (military and sporting). In my case the donor bullets are the Sellier & Bellot 196gr .318-dia projectiles currently available (albeit sporadically) in Oz.
Trouble is, most (all of mine!) worn three-ohs still have a tight chamber neck and won't accept a cartridge loaded with a ~.315 projectile. But given the bores are already beyond normal service, I now need to have a throat reamer made to open up the neck area. Onward, ever upward...!

kuduae: just to clarify the BGR rule, its designed to eliminate firearms that would unfairly compete against 'actual' big game rifles. And that's the Australian definition of big game, not American; ie Asian buffalo, African DG etc. The cutoff for Group 1 is .330-min and 2900 ftlbs. In the good'ol'days the 9.5 Mannlicher and .375 x 2 1/2 were allowed under an exemption, but when the discipline was "nationalized" (for the good of the sport, I must add) the exemption disappeared.
Our local club still honours the exemption for our monthly shoots, but not State or National championships.

Also Daryl, I think all those Hornady .330 205gr bullets are military-pattern FMJ. All the ones in my possession are.

Back to maneaters in India....?

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
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Daryl_S
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: Marrakai]
      #361537 - 05/02/22 11:43 AM

Manson, Shilen & Pacific make neck/throaters & just throating reamers.

Some Gun Smith's I have heard, use straight "Chucking" reamers, made in .001" increments for enlarging necks, but this does nothing for the throat, I suspect??(don't know for sure).

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: Marrakai]
      #361549 - 05/02/22 07:01 PM

Quote:



kuduae: just to clarify the BGR rule, its designed to eliminate firearms that would unfairly compete against 'actual' big game rifles. And that's the Australian definition of big game, not American; ie Asian buffalo, African DG etc. The cutoff for Group 1 is .330-min and 2900 ftlbs. In the good'ol'days the 9.5 Mannlicher and .375 x 2 1/2 were allowed under an exemption, but when the discipline was "nationalized" (for the good of the sport, I must add) the exemption disappeared.
Our local club still honours the exemption for our monthly shoots, but not State or National championships.




The rule change effectively mean the 9.5x57 M-S and .375 2 1/2" effectively are totally redundant. Except for the same class as a .308 or .243 or 7mm Mag po-lo-mo ,(is common) type rifles can also be used.

Classic rifles in classic vintage cartridges including the .375 2 1/2" and 9.5x57 M-S are exactly why the BGRC was formed.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: Daryl_S]
      #361550 - 05/02/22 07:11 PM

Quote:

Didn't the factory 8x56R run a 205 gr. about 2050fps?
found this:

5th load down, is interesting.

1938 nazi marked surplus ammo (2337 fps)

.330 Hornady 205 grain bullet (Graf and Sons) 44 gr IMR 4064, (2083 fps)

.330 Hornady 205 grain bullet 45.9 IMR 4895 (2168 fps)

.330 Hornady 205 grain bullet 46 grains Varget. (2155 fps)

.330 Hornady 205 grain bullet 47 grains IMR 3031. (2355 fps) Will never exceed.

.329 Bufallo 150 grain spire point 47 grains IMR 3031. (2489 fps) Will never exceed.

.329 Bufallo 150 spire point 46 grains Varget (2168 fps)

.329 Bufallo 150 spire point 44 grains IMR 4064. (2150 fps)

.329 Bufallo 150 spirepoint IMR 4895 46 grains. (2252 fps)




Good to know those projectiles exist. Might be useful.

Needed a minimum 225 gr .330 projectile, 2900 ft lbs.

I doubt a 8x56R could achieve this.

Funny comments are that a 8x50R shoots a 244 gr projectile at 2000 fps?

But the more powerful 8x56R newer cartridge shoots a lighter 205 gr at also 2000 fps. ???

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: Marrakai]
      #361551 - 05/02/22 07:20 PM

Quote:



Back to maneaters in India....?




True. If a .315 SMLE can shoot maneater leopard and tiger, it can shoot charging paper targets.









--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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kuduae
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: NitroX]
      #361566 - 05/02/22 10:57 PM

Quote:

But the more powerful 8x56R newer cartridge shoots a lighter 205 gr at also 2000 fps. ???



The advertised ballistics of the two current Serbian PPU Prvi Partizan 8x56R M30S loads are a 13.5 g = 208 gr bullet, either SN or FMJBT, at 700 m/s = 2300 fps. The CIP max pressure of the cartridge is 3550 bar, slightly less than the 3650 bar of the .303


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kuduae
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: kuduae]
      #361569 - 05/02/22 11:45 PM

Several 8 mm cartridges were called .315 by the British. Here are the entries for the 8x50R in the 1925 Kynoch catalog and a page from the 1925 Manton & Co., Calcutta price list.






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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: kuduae]
      #361593 - 06/02/22 07:30 PM

Thanks Kuduae.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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lancaster
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: NitroX]
      #361600 - 06/02/22 09:44 PM

the kynoch load is a little bit longer

posibble made for india and the 315 lee enfield magazine rifle, here on Mannlicher M 95 clips



303 service cartridge, 8x50 R Kynoch softpoint, 8x50R DWM softpoint, 8x50R service cartridge
notice that the Kynoch cartridge have a longer and spitzer bullet and is in oal close to the 303 round(lee Enfield magazin lenght?)
my M 95 is in the hands of the gunmaker now and I can not try if it fits into the Mannlicher or if the 2 mm more make a difference.


headstamp is Kynoch 8mm

Manton/calcutta catalog with the service cartridge and the Kynoch round


had allways an interest in the 8x50R and buy the ammo when geting this
there is a 50 cm M 95 carbine barrel, will maybe make an insert once

have try to load it with the 9x3x53R and 8x50R lebel die set, it works

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: lancaster]
      #361609 - 07/02/22 01:13 AM

Lancaster, thanks for posting.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: NitroX]
      #369441 - 21/09/22 11:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:



Back to maneaters in India....?




True. If a .315 SMLE can shoot maneater leopard and tiger, it can shoot charging paper targets.












Quote:

Rackshit Sharma:
His name is Lakhpat Singh Rawat . A school teacher and now a famous man animal conflict resolver . Yours truly is also empaneled by the Forest Department in similar capacity. He though has been at it for longer than most of us and is the most experienced.




Quote:

Furqan Abbasid:
He is the modern day Corbett !Uttarakhand teacher has outscored British legendary hunter Jim Corbett in shooting down man-eaters. Lakhpat Singh Rawat, 50, has gunned down 45 man-eaters so far, while Corbett had killed 33 during 1907 and 1938.





To which I replied, "it isn't a scoreboard competition."

Btw some of these modern "maneaters" seem to be quite young cats

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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lancaster
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: NitroX]
      #369530 - 24/09/22 07:42 PM

maybe they learned from her mother, maybe humans were just to b near to overlook them any day.

maybe they got the wrong cat ...

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Modern day hunting of Man-Eaters in India [Re: lancaster]
      #369536 - 24/09/22 08:19 PM

Quote:

maybe they learned from her mother, maybe humans were just to b near to overlook them any day.

maybe they got the wrong cat ...




Indians have commented some of these guys shoot anything and everything. Not the specific maneater?

But is this true? No idea. Jealousy? No idea.

Interesting pictures however.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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