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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Bowhunting + Bows, Spears & Knives
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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3595
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Schrade-Loveless Collaboration
      #367847 - 19/07/22 07:32 PM

Just bought an interesting knife, but first some background:

In the early 1990s I went shopping for a smallish drop-point hunting knife and found a new Schrade PH1 in a local sports store. Carried that knife for years and really liked it, but it was a bit small for field-dressing buffalo so I eventually transitioned to a Tramontina bull skinner coupled with a 5-inch boner and the Schrade went into the collection.

Later I did a bit of internet research, having too few books on the subject, and became quite interested in the history of the Loveless designed drop-point hunting and skinning knives.

Apparently the Schrade drop-point hunter was the result of a collaboration between Bob Loveless and Uncle Henry, the original design being drawn up on the back of a Wolfie's Coffee House menu at the time!
That drawing still exists.
Those early knives were listed in the 1975 and '76 catalogues as the Schrade-Loveless Hunter (RL2) I believe, with burgundy delrin scales and the R.W Loveless/Schrade oval etched on the blade, however sales continued until 1979.
The PH1 and PH2 appeared some time later after an hiatus, featuring black delrin scales (like mine) and were catalogued from 1991 to 1995.

Always wanted one of the early burgundy-handle Loveless knives, and finally found an affordable one for sale on line. Unfortunately it has no reference to Bob Loveless, being etched with *SCHRADE* USA MADE in an oval on the blade, and SCHRADE USA stamped into the ricasso. It is serial numbered though, in the 500s, and was listed by the seller as a "limited edition".

So... Here's my question:
Anyone know enough about these knives to estimate the likely year or period of manufacture?

I am guessing somewhere in the 1977 to 1979 range.

I'll post photos when I get the thing in my hands, and clean it up a bit. Its been well-used and looked a bit second-hand in the listing.

Thanks in advance!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Jim_C
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Reged: 09/08/14
Posts: 174
Loc: USA
Re: Schrade-Loveless Collaboration [Re: Marrakai]
      #367861 - 20/07/22 01:38 PM

Your estimate sounds about right. That same website has a flyer dated 1978 that shows the burgundy-handled knife: http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/FLYERS/SC-1973-1979/pages/SC-78-14.htm

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3595
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Schrade-Loveless Collaboration [Re: Jim_C]
      #367863 - 20/07/22 02:31 PM

Thanks so much for that, Jim!

That's exactly it. The Custom Hunter 2.

I have discovered since my initial posting that sometime prior to the publication of the 1979 catalogue, Schrade introduced an improvement to the steel and subsequent knives were marked "SCHRADE+".
So I had already (potentially) reduced the likely window by one year!

Now off to peruse the other catalogues on the Collectors of Schrades website.

If I win Lotto an original Loveless drop will be an early purchase!


Edit: I note that the 1978 flyer for the CH2 in the link above refers to the new Schrade+ steel, but apparently the initial knives were not so-marked, perhaps not until 1979?

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Jim_C
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Re: Schrade-Loveless Collaboration [Re: Marrakai]
      #367895 - 22/07/22 06:58 AM

"Schrade+" was a trademark, and didn't identify the steel. Nothing unusual there, lots of knifemakers have in-house names for different steels. Queen Cutlery had "Queen steel" for a while, instead of just referring to knives as being stainless.

Prior to the Schrade+ mark, Schrade reportedly used 440C. Originally, blades marked Schrade+ were 440A, heat-treated to around HRC 59. After the switchover (1990-ish, if I remember right), they used 420HC.

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3595
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Schrade-Loveless Collaboration [Re: Jim_C]
      #367896 - 22/07/22 12:04 PM

Well, Ok...
but if you read the fine print in the flyer you linked above, Schrade's own words refer to it as "a special high-grade blade of Schrade+ steel".
Obviously its their own name for that particular blend or treatment of 440 stainless, and IIRC the recipe is posted on the Schrade knife collector forums somewhere.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3595
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Schrade-Loveless Collaboration [Re: Marrakai]
      #367897 - 22/07/22 12:07 PM

Found it on BladeForums:

"Schrade stainless was originally 440C, until in the late 1970s they trademarked Schrade Plus for 440A which had a special heat-treat, enabling the steel to come out of the heat-treat with two points more carbon than it went in. (i.e., originally, about .6 carbon, after heat-treat, .8 and a fine grain structure.)"

Good stuff!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Schrade-Loveless Collaboration [Re: Marrakai]
      #367905 - 22/07/22 09:06 PM

Well, let's see this blade when you get it, and then show it again when you get a chance to stick it into a NT buff!

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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bouldersmith
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Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 627
Loc: Boulder Colorado
Re: Schrade-Loveless Collaboration [Re: CptCurl]
      #367944 - 25/07/22 03:24 AM

Nice one on ebay right now:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304388069554?hash=item46def158b2:g:bW4AAOSw1FtiJ1Ln

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3595
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Schrade-Loveless Collaboration [Re: bouldersmith]
      #367950 - 25/07/22 03:04 PM

Yeah, thanks Bouldersmith, been watching that one for a while.

They even sent me an offer!

Still a bit too pricey for what it is, a premium on the low serial number I guess. Out of my league.
...but they are not getting cheaper and availability is limited (sigh).

And I appreciate your sentiments Curl, will attempt to comply!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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