Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Shopping.NitroExpress.com >> Classifieds & Collecting

Pages: 1
Rigby350
.300 member


Reged: 11/11/08
Posts: 177
Loc: NSW,Australia
WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases
      #366089 - 30/05/22 06:52 PM

Hello All,

I have recently purchased a Kurz Mauser in the original 6.5x54 Mauser round. I would like to purchase a set dies and empty cases, if you can help in anyway it will be greatly appreciated, thank you in advance.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26510
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: Rigby350]
      #366095 - 31/05/22 02:05 AM

If you get/find brass that fits the chamber of your rifle, you can get by with 6.5x55 or .260 Rem dies which may be less expensive than 6.5x54 dies.
Neck sizing is all you will have to do, so any dies that neck size the case and don't touch any other part of the case will work.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rigby350
.300 member


Reged: 11/11/08
Posts: 177
Loc: NSW,Australia
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: DarylS]
      #366134 - 31/05/22 09:42 PM

Hi Daryl,

Thank you for the advise, agreed this will certainly work and will help get me buy until I source a set of dies as I would like to own a set for it. Thank you again.

Quote:

If you get/find brass that fits the chamber of your rifle, you can get by with 6.5x55 or .260 Rem dies which may be less expensive than 6.5x54 dies.
Neck sizing is all you will have to do, so any dies that neck size the case and don't touch any other part of the case will work.




Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: DarylS]
      #366136 - 31/05/22 10:52 PM

Quote:

If you get/find brass that fits the chamber of your rifle, you can get by with 6.5x55 or .260 Rem dies which may be less expensive than 6.5x54 dies.
Neck sizing is all you will have to do, so any dies that neck size the case and don't touch any other part of the case will work.




The correct case to reform is the 6,5x57 mauser. Casehead and rimdiameter.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26510
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: rigbymauser]
      #366146 - 01/06/22 02:19 AM

This is what I found as to the measurements.
Seems to me, the 6.5x57 is the normal 57mm case. If brass could be formed from 6.5x57, ANY 57mm case could be used such as the 6mm Rem. & .257 Roberts, as well as longer 62 and 63mm, standard cases, like .30/06, .270 Win, .280 Rem.
If the measurements below are correct, the 6.5x54 case is smaller than the standard Mauser case of 57mm., which is why any of the 6.5's or .260 dies will work to neck size the 54mm. brass.

Parent case 6.5×53mmR
Case type Rimless, bottleneck
Bullet diameter .264 in (6.7 mm)
Neck diameter .295 in (7.5 mm)
Shoulder diameter .428 in (10.9 mm)
Base diameter .452 in (11.5 mm)
Rim diameter .454 in (11.5 mm)
Case length 2.11 in (54 mm)
Overall length 3.00 in (76 mm)
Case capacity 44.5 gr H2O (2.88 cm3)
Rifling twist 1 in 9"
Primer type Large Rifle
Maximum pressure (C.I.P.) 365.0 MPa (52,939 psi) [1]

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1414
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: DarylS]
      #366165 - 01/06/22 04:09 AM

Quote:

This is what I found as to the measurements.
Seems to me, the 6.5x57 is the normal 57mm case. If brass could be formed from 6.5x57, ANY 57mm case could be used such as the 6mm Rem. & .257 Roberts, as well as longer 62 and 63mm, standard cases, like .30/06, .270 Win, .280 Rem.
If the measurements below are correct, the 6.5x54 case is smaller than the standard Mauser case of 57mm., which is why any of the 6.5's or .260 dies will work to neck size the 54mm. brass.

Parent case 6.5×53mmR
Case type Rimless, bottleneck
Bullet diameter .264 in (6.7 mm)
Neck diameter .295 in (7.5 mm)
Shoulder diameter .428 in (10.9 mm)
Base diameter .452 in (11.5 mm)
Rim diameter .454 in (11.5 mm)
Case length 2.11 in (54 mm)
Overall length 3.00 in (76 mm)
Case capacity 44.5 gr H2O (2.88 cm3)
Rifling twist 1 in 9"
Primer type Large Rifle
Maximum pressure (C.I.P.) 365.0 MPa (52,939 psi) [1]



Daryl,
I think you are confusing the 6.5x54 (.256) Mannlicher-Schoenauer with the 6.5x54 Mauser cartridge? Not the same animals, this one is essentially a shortened 6.5x57/7x57 Mauser intended for the "K" model Mauser sporting rifle.

As to brass & dies….I have not measured, but it may be suitable to have a 6.5x57 Mauser die set shortened and then form/trim 7x57 brass?
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26510
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: 3DogMike]
      #366176 - 01/06/22 06:44 AM

Yes - my bad - sorry for my confusion.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: DarylS]
      #366199 - 02/06/22 12:59 AM

Quote:

Yes - my bad - sorry for my confusion.




You better be sorry or you shall be punished



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26510
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: rigbymauser]
      #366200 - 02/06/22 01:07 AM

LOL

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1775
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: DarylS]
      #366206 - 02/06/22 03:45 AM

I don’t have a K Mauser, but an even rarer Schmidt & Habermann, Suhl, model 21 in 6.5x54 K Mauser. As you see, it is claw mounted with a Zeiss 2.5x “Zielmi”scope.

For several years I have been looking in vain for a proper die set. So I make cases from once-fired Sellier & Bellot 6.5x57 brass this way: Shorten cases to 53 mm (they grow longer in reforming). Anneal necks an shoulders. Resize case body by pushing them all the way into an 8x57 IS Lee die without expander. Set shoulder back in a shortened 6.5x55 SE die until bolt closes. Fireform. Load by neck sizing only in 6.5x55 die. Seat bullets using 6.5x55 seating die.
Photo shows, l to r: 2 original pre-war loads by RWS and DWM, my handload with a 120 gr PPU .264” bullet, 6.5x54 Mannlicher – Schoenauer for comparision.

BTW, contrary to popular belief the 7x57 Mauser M93 case is not a necked down 8x57 M88 case. The Mauser designed 7x57 case has a head diameter 0.1 mm larger then the 8x57, designed by the Prussian rifle testing commission. The base diameter of the 6.5x55 SE is even larger than both. The base of the 6.5x57 is 11.90 mm = .468”, the 7x57 is 11.99 mm = .472”, while the 6.5x55 SE is 12.17 mm = .479”. This precludes reforming 7x57 or 6.5x55 brass to the smaller 6.5x54 Mauser, let alonr the even smaller Mannlicher – Schoenauer case.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3987
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: kuduae]
      #366208 - 02/06/22 06:49 AM

That's a real labour of love to make those cases Kuduae!
Never know Louis might find you a set yet....he's a real scrounger at finding bibs & bobs!
Lovely rifle you have there, never heard of Schmidt & Habermann before.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
m4220
.300 member


Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 233
Loc: wa
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: Rigby350]
      #366210 - 02/06/22 07:24 AM

Rigby350
Good luck on your quest, I had the good fortune to buy several boxes of RWS 6.5x54 Mauser years ago. They are rare as Hen's teeth over here! I also have a 1932 K Mauser (mine is 250-3000) they are really neat little rifles.

Cheers
m4220


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3525
Loc: Colorado
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: m4220]
      #366212 - 02/06/22 09:00 AM

I have a set - RCBS. Don't think I ever even used them.
PM me and we can come to a deal.
Shipping to OZ will be about $50 I think.









Edited by Huvius (02/06/22 10:08 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39245
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: Huvius]
      #366218 - 02/06/22 01:58 PM

What a great offer, Huvius.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39245
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: kuduae]
      #366219 - 02/06/22 02:03 PM

Impressive Kuduae as usual.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rigby350
.300 member


Reged: 11/11/08
Posts: 177
Loc: NSW,Australia
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: Huvius]
      #366221 - 02/06/22 02:31 PM

Thank you Huvius, super appreciative.

I have sent you a PM.

Quote:

I have a set - RCBS. Don't think I ever even used them.
PM me and we can come to a deal.
Shipping to OZ will be about $50 I think.












Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rigby350
.300 member


Reged: 11/11/08
Posts: 177
Loc: NSW,Australia
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: Rigby350]
      #366222 - 02/06/22 02:34 PM

Thank you all for your help, this is a great supportive community, thank you again.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1775
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: Rigby350]
      #366228 - 02/06/22 09:14 PM

Quote:

never heard of Schmidt & Habermann before.




The E.Schmidt & Habermann, Suhl factory is a forgotten greatness of the German guntrade. They were predominantly producing for the trade as a “gunmaker’s gunmaker”. As Schmidt & Habermann did most of their work for the trade, you rarely find a gun openly marked by them, but if you inspect the guns of the countless country and city gunmakers, even "name" ones, closely, you may often find their "ESHA" mark hidden inside. F.i. all the famous pre-war "Original Wilhelm Brenecke, Leipzig" rifles were made for them by Schmidt & Habermann and have S&H serial numbers, as were guns and rifles signed by Barella, Burgsmüller, Peterlongo, AKAH and many others. They are most often signed with a hidden ESHA mark.
The venerable company E. Schmidt & Habermann, Suhl was founded in 1860. During the 1920s it was owned by the brothers Franz and Paul Stadelmann. About 1930 Schmidt & Habermann offered the usual complete program of hunting guns from cheap hammer shotguns to sidelocks, drillings and combination guns of all descriptions and over-unders. In 1881 they patented a takedown system that was later used by Westley Richards. S&H created the “clamshell” action for double rifles too. One of the S&H trademarks was "Waldlaeufer" = woodsloafer which term now generally describes a special type of drilling, essentially a side-by-side shotgun with a small bore, .22lr or .22 Winchester centerfire aka 5.6x36R Vierling barrel inside the top rib, used then for off-season, year round fox and rabbit hunting, the small rifle barrel intended to give a little more reach just in case..
During WWI, all the Thuringian gunmakers were occupied with making stuff for the German army, either complete arms such as pistols or at least some parts like those for the Star-marked M98 rifles. When the war ended in 1918, Suhl was full of M98 parts but without work anymore. Hard times befell all the German gunmakers then: No more military orders, the restrictions of the Versailles treaty, international trade restrictions and economy coming to a downslide, resulting in an inflation that got to its peak in 1923, when a loaf of bread cost several billion Mark. Very few people could afford new sporting guns. Gunmakers tried to survive by converting ex-military M98 actions into affordable hunting rifles. Schmidt & Habermann offered these too, as did all others. Everyone tried to invent a product that would allow him to survive in some market niche. Immediately after WWI Mauser was out of the commercial repeating rifle market, so the Stadelmanns decided to offer an "improved" Mauser-type hunting rifle. Due to the loss of Germany's African colonies, little need was seen for a new magnum length action. With all those reuseable M98 actions floating around, it made little sense to compete with them. The main rifle quarry of German hunters then was the small roebuck. Many hunters then felt the standard-length Mauser cartridges like 8x57, a prohibited cartridge anyhow, or its "Ersatz", the 8x60, much too destructive for those tiny deer, so S&H decided to offer an "Improved version of the short Mauser K action, chambered for the then-popular short roe-class cartridges 6.5x54 Mauser, 8x51 and a proprietary 7x54. Later they added the .250-3000 and the 5.6x52R aka .22 Savage High Power to their offering.
S&H designed a simplified, small ring, round-bottomed K-length receiver without a thumb-hole cut, but with sort of a "square bridge" on the receiver ring to provide extra steel to cut the usual claw-mount dovetail into. The bolt assembly was also simplified, falling back on some pre-98 design features. The guide-rib on the bolt body is omitted, as is a third or safety locking lug. The firing pin lacks the post-1902 front safety lugs too.
The unique bolt sleeve and safety arrangement is completely different from the Mauser design. Instead of a flag safety to block the firing pin there is an arrangement that allows the rifle to be manually uncocked to set it on "safe".
On their M21 S&H employed a big "Cocking Knob" on the firing pin nut, similar to those on the American Krags and Springfields, but rather unusual on German full-bore rifles. A spring-loaded latch is set into a slot in the right side of this knob. If you want to set the rifle on "safe", you grab the knob with the left hand, depressing the rear end of the lever latch with the thumb, pull the trigger and lower the firing pin until the protruding forward end of the latch rests against the bolt sleeve. Now the gun is on safe with the firing pin tip held back from the primer. Pulling back the firing pin recocks the rifle, the latch snaps back and allows the firing pin to go fully forward on firing. This arrangement looks quite good at first glance, but it is not very comforting to work it with cold fingers and under a low-mounted scope, so Schmidt & Habermann followed popular demand and added a Greener-type trigger -blocking safety as a factory option.



Apparently the Schmidt & Habermann Modell21 was not a real success in the market. From 1922 on K action Mausers were available again. S&H could not compete with the original Mausers.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2386
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: kuduae]
      #366253 - 03/06/22 10:09 AM

Very interesting, thanks for that Kuduae.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mckinney
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/09
Posts: 1212
Loc: usa
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #366256 - 03/06/22 12:42 PM

Kuduae

A bit off the thread topic but:

Is it true that the .22 WCF is identical to the .22 Vierling? I have a couple of ZiDi rifles in the original Vierling chambering and have read many comments about the confusion between the Vierling and the .22 Hornet but I don’t remember reading about any comparison of the Vierling to the .22 WCF.

I’ve struggled to find ammo for my rifles and two or three enquiries to custom case manufacturers have been fruitless. If the Vierling is identical to the 22 WCF that might help.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1775
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: mckinney]
      #366260 - 03/06/22 08:58 PM

mckinney, as far off topic imho, I answered your question here:
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=366259&an=0&page=0#Post366259


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
FrankFarmer
.300 member


Reged: 06/08/06
Posts: 172
Loc: Florida USA.
Re: WTB: 6.5x54 Mauser Kurz Dies and Cases [Re: kuduae]
      #368426 - 18/08/22 04:48 AM

Excellent article, thank you.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1



Extra information
0 registered and 10 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  NitroX 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating: ****
Topic views: 6400

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved