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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2392
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Express sight
      #365170 - 03/05/22 09:42 AM

Can some one point me to a good write up in the use of Express Sights. The more illustrations the better.

Book? You tube video?

I know the basics, but don't have a lot experience with them.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Express sight [Re: DoubleD]
      #365197 - 04/05/22 02:26 AM

I have no articles or videos, but I've been shooting an express sight on my 14 bore (.69) rifle since 1986 - likely over 5,000 rounds through it, maybe more than 8,000. I've burned a lot of powder in it and made many excellent groups at from 50 on out to 200yards using that rifle.
Express sights can be a VERY accurate sighting system, with simple bead or Elmer's Sheard Gold Beed front sight.
If blackened sights are EVER needed, a simple Dry Erase felt pen does the trick and a simple wipe of the thumb returns the 'shiny" surface needed in the dark bush, or on black 'targets'.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1413
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Express sight [Re: DarylS]
      #365204 - 04/05/22 07:12 AM

Hello Douglas,
Mike here, same as "Mike Warren" on British Militaria.
Have this for you from Walsh's "Modern Sportsman's Gun & Rifle" 1882

I find my old(er) eyes like the "full sight" better. I do usually put the front bead center on the bull and have a bull that just a hair bigger all around than what the front sight subtends. Helps me center the bull.
Certainly faster aiming in game shooting the "fine sight" is out of the question, off the bench maybe OK.
…..your milage may vary
- Mike




--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Express sight [Re: 3DogMike]
      #365210 - 04/05/22 07:06 PM

Quote:








Those images look off to me.

The bead is way too big in relation to the V.

Never ever seen a fine sighting like that. Hiding three-quarters of the bead under the V. The bottom of the V sighting should show the full head circle nestled in the bottom of the V fully visible.

The other sighting method is to level the top of the bead level with the top of the V. As I understand it, this is the usual method. Though I learned to shoot using the bottom of the V method. I find that more accurate.

The writer of the article talks about his much leisure and that determines which sighting method you use. NO! It depends on how your rifle was sighted in.

Personally I also do not understand these old books referencing shooting the bottom of a circle target. I know this is very common. Instead of aiming say the top of the bead, or the centre of the bead, directing where you want the bullet impact. Subject to trajectory of course.

Aiming the bottom of a circle approach. What size is the circle? Is it 6 inches? 12 inches? Is your rifle sighted to shoot three inches or six inches high? And at what range? 100 yards? 50 yards? 200 yards? With a multi leaf express sights, are all the leaves sighted to always be aimed six inches below the target aim?

Plus I have never seen a 12 inch convenient circle on an animal! I'll pick my aiming point, calculate six inches down and Sim there. Or this charging buffalo, that's the brain, I'd better aimmsix inches lower however .... I've seen the bottom of the circle advice. Never use it! Maybe why I often shoot too high? But the rifle range is different from the field.

Recently I attended a BGRC visitor day shoot for another club. All firearms were provided. All had some sort of V sight. Some rifles were obviously designed for the bottom of the V. Others for the level top of the V. In some cases the V was so big, the bead would be lost floating at the top of the V. Only nestled in the bottom of the V would provide good accuracy.

Was a good day, shooting lots of different strange rifles. Iquite enjoyed the .303s. Lee Speed versions my guess. I want one!

I much much prefer the wide Express V to those aweful narrow notches usually on modern open sights. Often these completely hide the target.

Thanks, 3DogMike for the post and image. Aids discussion and opinion.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Express sight [Re: NitroX]
      #365211 - 04/05/22 07:14 PM

I posted this article recently. No one commented on it.

I don't agree with the writer where he says multi leaf express sights are a waste of time. He may be correct when he says no one uses the other leaves! It is an ambition of mine to start doing so.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=364885&an=0&page=0&vc=1

Back to Basics: How to Use Iron Sights On a Rifle

Quality iron sights are simple, lightweight, and surprisingly accurate out to 200 yards

There must be threads on this topic.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (04/05/22 07:14 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Express sight [Re: NitroX]
      #365212 - 04/05/22 07:22 PM













http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3510&an=&page=0&vc=1

A distinguished Indian Gentleman - W.J. Jeffery .450 No. 2 Nitro Express

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2392
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Express sight [Re: NitroX]
      #365220 - 04/05/22 10:03 PM

Mike's illustration is what I am running into and why I asked the question. Nice correct representation of an express rear sight with a giant pumpkin for a front sight. I agree with John the front sight in the illustration is way to big.

Not what I have, and not what I have seen. Both of my guns with express sights have a small front bead that sits way down in the bottom of the "V".


I have this grand library and can not find a thing. So later this morning after I go out to the shop and load the first test loads for shooting Friday at the Range, I will spend the rest of the day looking for the right book.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Express sight [Re: DoubleD]
      #365222 - 04/05/22 10:13 PM

Just flicked through a selection of 623 posts on "express sights". Still reading through tabs of the opened selections.

Some relevance.

But have found many of interest. Including some photos I didn't know I took of an auctioned buy which shows a gun Case. Have to check whether the gun Case arrived with the rifle?! Will share the photos.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Express sight [Re: NitroX]
      #365229 - 05/05/22 01:50 AM

I agree the front sight in the book's illustration is too big - it's more like a moon sight.
My aim is taken the same as the 'full sight' however the ball hits in the middle of the bead.
Thus, with my aging eyes, the bead is fuzzy, but the ball hits in the middle, so the sharp outside detail is not very important.
I still shoot these well and have won 8 or 9 monthly postal matches at ALR with that rifle over the last 2 years. It's my "target rifle"(14 bore).

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1413
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Express sight [Re: DarylS]
      #365266 - 06/05/22 03:13 AM

I hope that the illustration was using some "artistic license" as to the size of that front bead?

My take is that the principle would be the same irrespective of the relative size of the front bead.
I do have to note that in the past I have had a couple of vintage/antique English express rifles that have had very fine front beads, likely filed down to a tiny point. I'd guess the owner/shooter had really sharp vision and was after small targets at distance?
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Express sight [Re: 3DogMike]
      #365269 - 06/05/22 05:26 AM

Quote:

I hope that the illustration was using some "artistic license" as to the size of that front bead?

My take is that the principle would be the same irrespective of the relative size of the front bead.
- Mike



That was my thoughts as well..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Rod4861
.300 member


Reged: 12/06/07
Posts: 243
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: Express sight [Re: Ripp]
      #365281 - 06/05/22 02:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I hope that the illustration was using some "artistic license" as to the size of that front bead?

My take is that the principle would be the same irrespective of the relative size of the front bead.
- Mike



That was my thoughts as well..



Maybe…. I guess it’ll depend on eye sight quality, firearm type and it’s intended use. No use having a fine sight if you can’t clearly see it.

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