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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1808
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser [Re: 93x64mm]
      #364507 - 11/04/22 05:46 PM

Quote:

Were they in .30 Mauser as well Rothhammer?



Don't know 'offhand' but I suspect not as it seems Mannlicher designs of the time tended to favor exclusive and proprietary chamberings.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #364510 - 11/04/22 07:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:



Looking on Google I find a. NE thread by Lancaster from seven years ago.





That NE (NitroExpress) is one first rate website!



Yes it is. Once when looking for Mannlicher images. I found many of the first 200 images all from NE. A great place for some africa hunting forum members to steal images from! If photo bucket had not gone bonkers the old images we would still have.

We still have also the under used nickudu files, a huge archive of books and articles. So neglected. One day I would love to scan the pdfs and put into ezine serialised format. Just need workable sw without lots of hand editing. And time ...

It's a pity the Facebook exiles don't realise their error and return from the cold to the warm camp fire and scotch.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1770
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser [Re: 93x64mm]
      #364515 - 11/04/22 08:12 PM

Quote:

Were they in .30 Mauser as well Rothhammer?


The 1901 Mannlicher carbine used a proprietary Austrian load of the 7.62x25 Borchard – Mauser – Tokarev cartridge. While both then Mauser and Tokarev versions were loaded to about 1400 fps, the Borchard and Mannlicher cartridges were loaded to about 10 % less velocity. All four cartridges share he same dimensions and about 86 gr bullets.
The Mannlicher carbine has a serious design flaw, compared to the Mauser and Luger carbines: All three carbines are short recoil actions, depending on the barrel recoiling backwards on firing. On the Mauser and Luger carbines the foreend is mounted with a hanger on the lower receiver, independent of the recoiling barrel. The Mannlicher has the foreend fastened to the barrel, so it moves with the barrel on recoil. As I know from experience many years ago, gripping the foreend of a Mannlicher carbine will lead to malfunctions. If you pull back with your hand, the barrel will slide back slightly and disconnect the trigger, no blammo. If you grip the forend hard, pushing foreward, you add the mass of your arm to the recoiling parts and the gun will not function properly. So the nice foreend of the Mannlicher carbine is quite useless.

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8716
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser [Re: kuduae]
      #364529 - 12/04/22 05:36 AM

I understand you have shoot the little mannlicher carbine? probably with a handload?

not many can say that about themselves, this are very nice made little carbines.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser [Re: kuduae]
      #364538 - 13/04/22 12:10 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Were they in .30 Mauser as well Rothhammer?


The 1901 Mannlicher carbine used a proprietary Austrian load of the 7.62x25 Borchard – Mauser – Tokarev cartridge. While both then Mauser and Tokarev versions were loaded to about 1400 fps, the Borchard and Mannlicher cartridges were loaded to about 10 % less velocity. All four cartridges share he same dimensions and about 86 gr bullets.
The Mannlicher carbine has a serious design flaw, compared to the Mauser and Luger carbines: All three carbines are short recoil actions, depending on the barrel recoiling backwards on firing. On the Mauser and Luger carbines the foreend is mounted with a hanger on the lower receiver, independent of the recoiling barrel. The Mannlicher has the foreend fastened to the barrel, so it moves with the barrel on recoil. As I know from experience many years ago, gripping the foreend of a Mannlicher carbine will lead to malfunctions. If you pull back with your hand, the barrel will slide back slightly and disconnect the trigger, no blammo. If you grip the forend hard, pushing foreward, you add the mass of your arm to the recoiling parts and the gun will not function properly. So the nice foreend of the Mannlicher carbine is quite useless.



Thank you for this info..

Incidentally, my father-in-law.. who is a serious gun collector.. has 2 original Luger carbines... they are in very good condition.. joy to look at and handle..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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lancaster
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser [Re: Ripp]
      #364542 - 13/04/22 01:49 AM

probably in 7,65x21 Parabellum but for the carbine with a stronger load then normal

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1770
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser [Re: lancaster]
      #364546 - 13/04/22 03:14 AM

Quote:

I understand you have shoot the little mannlicher carbine? probably with a handload?

not many can say that about themselves, this are very nice made little carbines.



Yes. About 50 years ago an old man brought such an 1897-01 Mannlicher carbine with him to our shooting range. He had a bag of loose old factory cartridges, probably 7.62 Mauser loads. Nobody cared then. He let me shoot a full 6 shot magazine at a 50 meter target. He watched me trying to shoot the thing, quite amused. At first I pulled the little carbine back into my shoulder as i would hold any other rifle or shotgun. Nothing happened. He then told me not to pull back on the foreend. I gripped the wood foreend with my hand, careful to keep it forward. Bang! but no ejection or reloading. Only then the old man instructed me to hold the foreend with my fingertips only. The next five rounds fired and worked perfectly. It's a long time ago now and I don't know what happened to the carbine.
These Mannlicher Selbstladekarabiner may be well made and nice looking. But a gun that does not work properly in a hurry is pretty useless imho.

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lancaster
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser [Re: kuduae]
      #364553 - 13/04/22 04:59 AM

thanks, never heard about this design problem before because,well, nobody try to shoot such an rare and expensive collector piece today.
it may have been the reason this carbines were build in such a low quantity.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser [Re: lancaster]
      #364563 - 13/04/22 04:33 PM

An obvious reason for the failure of the carbine design.

Great to have such experienced members here. Who would think holding the forend normally would result in the semi auto's cycling to fail. And that the whole barrel AND forend cycles.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (13/04/22 04:37 PM)

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