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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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mckinney
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/09
Posts: 1212
Loc: usa
Interesting VL & D Mauser
      #363469 - 14/03/22 12:02 AM


https://www.gunbroker.com/item/922596974

This is an interesting one. Very nice lines to my eye and a Lyman 35 sight. Looks like it has been well used and also abused. The Mauser numbers appear to match and the action dates to about 1911.

The seller says the caliber is 7x57 but the markings on the barrel are confusing.

The Poldi Anticorro markings seem to indicate stainless steel ("SS") and perhaps the "No 754" is the Poldi barrel number? The profile image of a lady I think is the Poldi trademark.

The markings underneath the barrel make no sense to me. "6,3 mm" and "53 1/2". I know of no caliber with a groove or lands diameter of 6.3 mm. Perhaps this is a rounding of 6.35 mm which would be .25 caliber. If so, I don't know of any .25 caliber cartridges with a case length of 53 1/2 mm. Or maybe the 6,3 should be 6,5. In that case the 6.5x53R cartridge might be a fit as the cartridge length is 53.5 mm.

Then there are the gouges in the inletting. The stock number seems to match the Mauser number. But why would someone gouge out these big chunks? To fit a different barreled action to the stock?

Anyway very interesting. I hope some of our real Mauser experts have some insights.

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1412
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Interesting VL & D Mauser [Re: mckinney]
      #363489 - 14/03/22 08:27 AM

No Mauser expert here.
Interesting rifle to be sure, a beauty in its day and an enigma as to 6.3mm proof stamp (would be BORE not GROOVE) and claimed 7x57 chambering.
6.5x57 maybe? Oversize neck and throat and you probably "could" get a 7x57 to chamber…..

The exterior could clean up pretty well, but that recoil lug inletting looks like a horror show.
Right side grip panel sure has the look of a repaired split thru the grip…..

A guy like Steve Bertram could work his magic to bring it back…..at a price.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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85lc
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Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 900
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: Interesting VL & D Mauser [Re: 3DogMike]
      #363494 - 14/03/22 09:00 AM

There was a 6.3x53 Swiss cartridge.
Mike is correct about the recoil lug inletting. Also looks like oil damage.
Of course, with the right amount of Benjamins, this rifle can be returned to a very nice state.

--------------------
RB

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mckinney
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/09
Posts: 1212
Loc: usa
Re: Interesting VL & D Mauser [Re: 85lc]
      #363499 - 14/03/22 09:25 AM

Thanks for the input guys.

Benjamins or Grover Clevelands to repair this rifle?

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pjaln
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Reged: 08/06/06
Posts: 708
Loc: massachusetts ,U.S.A.
Re: Interesting VL & D Mauser [Re: mckinney]
      #363512 - 14/03/22 01:37 PM

looks like a 1909 arg. bottom metal , gun looks good from a distance , up close there are problems but for sure it was a nice gun at one time

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1770
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Interesting VL & D Mauser [Re: pjaln]
      #363525 - 14/03/22 10:45 PM

The bore/land diameter marked with the proofmarks was established by the proofhouse using cylindrical plugs in .1 mm steps. So “6.3 mm” means: a 6.3 mm plug passed the bore while a 6.4 mm one did not. So 6.3 mm was marked on barrels up to 6.399 mm. Minimum bore diameters and chamber dimensions for the various calibers were set in 1925 only, several years after this rifle was made. The actual bullet diameter also depends on the groove depth. The marking here, 6.3 mm / 53,5 mm case length points to either the 6.5x54 K Mauser, 6.64 mm = .261” bullets, or the 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, 6.70 mm = .264” bullets. A chamber cast is advisable here.
The rifle was proofed by the Suhl proofhouse after 1911. It was built by V.C. Schilling, Suhl, using Argentine 1909 parts scrounged from the DWM factory. The double S mark indicates chambering and fitting of the barrel by the Schilling factory. Valentin Christoph Schilling founded the company in 1816. V.C.S. closed doors in 1915. This dates the rifle 1912 – 1915.
The rust resistant Poldi Anticorro steel was first produced in 1910.
The serial number is Schilling’s own, not related to the Mauser numbers. There is nothing on this rifle that indicates any Mauser, Oberndorf, factory origin of rifle parts.

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mckinney
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Reged: 29/01/09
Posts: 1212
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Re: Interesting VL & D Mauser [Re: kuduae]
      #363529 - 15/03/22 01:26 AM

Hi Kuduae, Pjaln

I was hoping to hear from you on this one and thank you for that fascinating amount of detail.

I did buy the rifle, can't seem to take my own advice and buy only the best examples - always seduced by these kinds of guns. I will do a chamber cast and let you know what I find.

Regarding the number, is it just a coincidence that 47252 fits into the timeline in the sequencing of Oberndorf numbers in the Speed book, or are you speaking of the no. 754 on the top of the barrel as being the VC Schilling number?

Also, there is an under barrel marking of 9.9 gr (or 8.9 gr). Is this of any help in determining chambering?

Do you think the rifle was stocked at Schilling or elsewhere? I assume the Lyman front sight and ramp and the 35 sight would have been added by VL&D or elsewhere.

Is the mark above the 'crown over B' a German proof mark or a trademark?

thanks again

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1770
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Interesting VL & D Mauser [Re: mckinney]
      #363535 - 15/03/22 03:52 AM

V.C.Schilling was, just like Haenel, one of the big Suhl makers of military and sporting rifles and M88 “Commission” actions. As these actions went out of fashion after 1900, their main business went down. So 47252 is certainly V.C.S. serial number. The resemblance to Mauser numbers is just pure coincidence. 754 is most likely the Poldi barrel blank number. The “lady” is the Poldi trade mark.
On scrutinizing the photos, I can make out the service load info: crown/N = smokeless proof, St.m.G. / 9 gr = steel jacket bullet up to 9 gramm. This speaks for the 6.5x54 k Mauser cartridge as the M-Sch load used bullets of 10.3 gramm. A M-Sch cartridge will not fit in a Mauser k chamber and vice versa. But the rifle may have been rechambered or even rebored much later in the USA as was often done to rifles chambered for unavailable ammo.
The rifle was certainly stocked and assembled at the V.C.Schilling factory, but sighted by or for VL&D.
The German imperial eagle above the crown/B mark is part of the proofmarks. It stands for the first proof.

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m4220
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Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 233
Loc: wa
Re: Interesting VL & D Mauser [Re: kuduae]
      #363536 - 15/03/22 04:19 AM

mckinney, from the picture of the barrel markings on the bottom I would question the originality of it being built with that barrel mated to that action. Note the stake mark & that action face seems to be out of square with the barrel? Just an observation.

m4220

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mckinney
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/09
Posts: 1212
Loc: usa
Re: Interesting VL & D Mauser [Re: m4220]
      #363538 - 15/03/22 04:57 AM

m4220

I noticed that too, but thought the barrel might be cross threaded and not seated. However if it's a mismatched barrel that means it's not a VL&D rifle. Also, I don't know what accounts for the hack job done to the inletting. It definitely is not original to the rifle.

I will just have to wait for the rifle to arrive although I haven't yet mailed the check. I may end up with a very expensive Lyman 35 and front sight, a mauser action, and a nice looking stock that could be repaired at significant cost.

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