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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

A Double Rifle for Hunting Lilliput's Big Game
#363234 - 09/03/22 11:45 AM

Gentlemen:
This post is a little premature, but my theoretical .22 Rimfire SxS double rifle project has taken a big step forward with the recent acquisition of a potentially suitable donor .410 shotgun.

I have been looking for a long time, hoping for an affordable British hammerless .410 or 28-bore double to appear on the horizon, but an entire flock of pigs will fly past long before that happens! The Belgian/Tranter style hammer guns, including poacher versions, are of no interest to me for this conversion, and even the traditional-styled Brit hammer-guns tend to have oversized firing-pins, often steeply angled downwards, and indifferent triggers. One of them I bought anyway, a dainty little Birmingham gun retailed by W.E.Ekins of King William Street, Adelaide. Gorgeous!

But I digress. The first of what will probably be many compromises is the origin of the donor gun: Spain. Friend of mine offered this little gem at a price I couldn't afford to pass up, so here it is:

No makers name, just the word "Imperial" engraved on one barrel, "Made in Spain" on the other. It does have a Purdey-style hidden third bite and disc-set strikers though, and is rock-solid on the face.

Some time ago I acquired a pair of .22 barrel liners from Brownells, with the intention of making long .410 chamber inserts bored eccentrically to accomodate the liners while retaining the existing centre-fire strikers in their new rimfire role. Rotating the .22 chamber around the central firing pin will give me some degree of regulation from the breech end before the extractor is cut. Its a bloody tight fit in a .410 chamber, but I think I can make it work. The intended result will be akin to full-length Morris tubes.

Couple of other projects are going to get in the way of this one, so this post is really just a teaser, prompted by recent threads on shotgun-to-rifle conversions.

...and I will probably need to seek advice from these forums as things progress.

Wish me luck!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: A Double Rifle for Hunting Lilliput's Big Game [Re: Marrakai]
#363237 - 09/03/22 01:06 PM

Good luck!!!
Some time ago, I tried to get my hunting buddy to allow me to rifle one of more chokes of his .410SXS. That never came to fruition.
Best of luck with your liners, Marrakai - sounds like you've got it figured out fairly well.
The last 6 or so inches of bullet travel behind the muzzles will determine regulation, I think.
Slightly off-centre at the breech for firing pin location will do nothing for regulation, seems to me.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: A Double Rifle for Hunting Lilliput's Big Game [Re: DarylS]
#363242 - 09/03/22 04:29 PM

Looks good. That's quite a nice .410 imo. Rarely see anything like that.

Why A .22 RF? Why not a .22 Hornet? I suppose it would not fit?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroX
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Re: A Double Rifle for Hunting Lilliput's Big Game [Re: NitroX]
#363243 - 09/03/22 04:31 PM

Btw wasnt Lilliput NW off the coast of WA?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: A Double Rifle for Hunting Lilliput's Big Game [Re: NitroX]
#363245 - 09/03/22 05:23 PM

Quote:

Btw wasnt Lilliput NW off the coast of WA?

Dunno. Will go ask Gulliver...

Quote:

Why not a .22 Hornet?

Proof pressure issues for one, but mainly the ability to use cheap rifled liners with easy-to-make chamber inserts for a .22 Rimfire whereas a full barrel-sleeving job with re-regulation would be needed for a Hornet.

Then there's the cost of ammo for plinking.
...including availability of reloading components (in Australia) for any centrefire in these uncertain times.

And not to be trivialized these days is the legal implication: a rimfire conversion will not change the class of firearm whereas changing it to a centrefire arm is something only a certified/licensed gunsmith can do in most (all?) jurisdictions in Oz.
Of course, technically they will still be "inserts" capable of being removed so in reality no different from the short pistol-caliber insert in a 12-bore for example, but I'd rather not get into an argument with Plod over it.

Anyway, always wanted a hammerless .22 Rimfire SxS double, so its a no-brainer really.

Daryl:
The intention is to use one or more thick collars to support each barrel-liner in the .410 bores, a concentric one flush with each muzzle for aesthetics, and one or two spaced along each liner for support. They could be bored slightly off-centre and rotated to regulate convergence at the muzzle. No doubt this will not be as straight-forward as I am hoping, but should be achievable with some trial-and error.
Point is, I can easily make the chamber inserts and collars on my hobby-lathe, but I would have trouble steadying such a long thin centrefire barrel blank through the headstock.

Damn: now I'm starting to think about moving this project forward in the queue!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Hunter4752001
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Reged: 25/01/10
Posts: 122
Loc: Australia

Re: A Double Rifle for Hunting Lilliput's Big Game [Re: Marrakai]
#363250 - 09/03/22 06:01 PM

Marrakai, congrats on having a go. I've been daydreaming of doing one of these for some time, just never got around to it :-) . I was looking at a Boito (shudder) donor gun. Some of them had the firing pins going through screwed in bushings. That would have enabled replacing the firing pins with offset pins to suit rimfire. I was thinking regulation could be done by trial and error muzzle bushings.

Good luck with the project and keep us all informed on progress.

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NitroX
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: A Double Rifle for Hunting Lilliput's Big Game [Re: Hunter4752001]
#363255 - 09/03/22 07:29 PM

Tony, it should be fun if it shoots well. .22 RF ammo will be cheap.

I like the idea of a .22 Hornet for the apocalypse.

A few grains of powder per charge. KGs go a long long way. Thousands of shots! Not like a hundred or so loads for an NE.

Good luck with it.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroX
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Re: A Double Rifle for Hunting Lilliput's Big Game [Re: Marrakai]
#363257 - 09/03/22 07:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Btw wasnt Lilliput NW off the coast of WA?

Dunno. Will go ask Gulliver...

In my estimation near enough to the Cocos Islands.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilliput_and_Blefuscu

In your neighbourhood.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: A Double Rifle for Hunting Lilliput's Big Game [Re: NitroX]
#363277 - 10/03/22 05:01 AM

Tks "Marrakai". sounds doable.

At the World Police and Fire Games in 1989, held here in BC, one of the Aussie lads, a firefighter I think, traded me a couple bricks (maybe only one??) of Lapua match, for a brick or two of Federal HP high vel. He said he couldn't get those "at home" and wanted them for Roo. Maybe he was talking about Wallaby?
I re-sighted my 1950's Model 52 Winchester for them and our Corrections team won the team gold and I got silver for second highest score of the match. Keith, my buddy, won gold for highest score. He was using Ely Green Box I think, in his Anschutz. The prick beat me by 2 points for that gold overall.
Actually, he's not a prick, but a really great guy & been a close friend since 1979.

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: A Double Rifle for Hunting Lilliput's Big Game [Re: DarylS]
#363288 - 10/03/22 10:53 AM

Daryl:
We could certainly run a thread on different .22 ammo that would likely go several pages!
I particularly liked Remington Target ~30 years ago, the stuff that came in yellow plastic 100-boxes in slides of 2500 rounds, two to a 5000-round slab.
When that became unavailable, I went through a bunch of stuff looking for the "right" ammo for my Model 41 S&W. I remember being ecstatic about the Federal "dimple-head" stuff, only to be gutted when they discontinued it after less than a year. Geez that stuff shot!
Lapua "Match" and "Club" was the go for a while, my pistol couldn't tell the difference so I saved money by buying the "Club". Seemed like they threw 500 rounds in a can, followed by a healthy glob of goose-grease, and gave the whole lot a good shake!
Then it was CCI in the dark-blue box, slight compromise on accuracy but always consistent and reliable, till they 'changed' to the purple box and threw consistency out the window!
Now its Eley Green, bit pricey but accurate and reliable. What's next? These days, who knows...

Long-winded, apologies, but all this begs the question:
should I regulate this proposed double for standard velocity (sub-sonic) target ammo, or HV HP for better performance in the Lilliputian hunting field?

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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DarylS
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Re: A Double Rifle for Hunting Lilliput's Big Game [Re: Marrakai]
#363291 - 10/03/22 12:45 PM

If you can get standard WW SuperX HP's they are quite consistent, in that they have shot the same in my 10-22 since the early 80's & continue to do that - around 1/2" to .6" @ 50yards for over 30 years.

Another good one is the WW Power Point HP's with a full 40gr. HP, but they are not as consistently "available" (here) as the SX though.

The Browning 38gr. HP, that merely look like the WW Power Points, but are listed at something like 1,454fps really shoot well in my Anschutz sporter, but again, they are likely re-branded but I don't know who the mfg'r is.
WW Dynapoint, were a bulk dimple nosed standard vel. 1,080fps load that was exceptionally accurate, but the odd one is a bit of a squib, dropping out 1/2" low at 50yards.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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