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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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crshelton
.333 member

Reged: 10/11/15
Posts: 379
Loc: Republic of Texas

Beretta 45-70 to 45-90 DR conversion project progress
#362176 - 18/02/22 02:15 AM

The chamber extension and regulation are done and we have 4 shots in one inch at 45 yards!
The shooting was done by gun maker Aaron Little and he has good grouping. The upper right hole was a flier ( it was windy in Texas that day}.

45-90 DR with 26 inch barrels

Shooting North Fork 350 SS at 2200 - 2300 fps MV calculated as weather not conducive to use of Chrony yet.
Next step is to replace custom scope mount with Tally QD rings that clamp onto rear rib as on my .405 DR. This provides a low sighting view through the V of the standing leaf.

--------------------
CRS,NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/

Edited by crshelton (18/02/22 03:37 AM)

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260rem
.375 member

Reged: 16/04/06
Posts: 757
Loc: NSW Australia

Re: Beretta 45-70 to 45-90 DR conversion project progress [Re: crshelton]
#362204 - 18/02/22 10:06 AM

Beautiful gun, and it's definitely one of the big boys now.

--------------------
One shot is all you need.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Beretta 45-70 to 45-90 DR conversion project progress [Re: 260rem]
#362212 - 18/02/22 10:41 AM

Decent regulation.
Same group at 45/50 yards, means about a theoretical 1" to 1 1/2" group at 100.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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85lc
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Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 915
Loc: Georgia, USA

Re: Beretta 45-70 to 45-90 DR conversion project progress [Re: crshelton]
#362239 - 19/02/22 02:56 AM

Is this a converted DB shotgun or did Beretta make a 45/70 DR?
Your DR looks very nice and the 45/90 is a great choice, particularly if you have an 86 in 45/90.

--------------------
RB

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crshelton
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Reged: 10/11/15
Posts: 379
Loc: Republic of Texas

Re: Beretta 45-70 to 45-90 DR conversion project progress [Re: 85lc]
#362257 - 19/02/22 06:29 AM

851c,
Thank you for the kind words on the rifle.

The action is all left of a Beretta Gr2 SxS 12 gauge All else is exhibition wood, custom barrels, and a nice cushy recoil pad.
I do not know whether Beretta sold factory made SxS 45-70 Double rifles.

I bought this rifle from the estate of a gun maker who made it for himself and hunted deer with it for several years. He also made my Simson Suhl .405 WCF DR and knew that I wanted a 45-90 DR, but never told me that he made and was shooting this Beretta. He used medium velocity 300 grain hand loads and they shoot right through 300 pound hogs. I have the planning specifications for both rifles and they both handle and shoot just right for me.

--------------------
CRS,NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/

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DarylS
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Re: Beretta 45-70 to 45-90 DR conversion project progress [Re: crshelton]
#362259 - 19/02/22 06:57 AM

I'm sure my bro used a 300gr. Hornady from his .45 3 1/4" Shiloh Sharps on the moose, way back when.
I loaded his ammo at that time, using 62.0gr. Re#7 - for 2,260fps.(IIRC)
The moose was a young one, 18 mo (we call 2 year olds) & ran just over 300pounds in quarters at the butcher.
The shot was a broadside shot and the bullet exited the off side, making a 1" exit hole.
On the hide, surrounding the hole, was a ring of jellied lung tissue about 1" thick x 2 1/2" to 3" in diameter.
I was quite impressed with the penetration.
I suspect the 300gr. Nosler would be a super bullet for any of these .45 cal rifles for game in NA.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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85lc
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Reged: 19/01/18
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Loc: Georgia, USA

Re: Beretta 45-70 to 45-90 DR conversion project progress [Re: DarylS]
#362270 - 19/02/22 09:23 AM

crshelton
Thanks for the update and picture. That is a nice looking hog.
Was your Simson ma from a shotgun? I ask because Simson made DR in 405. I remember seeing one at a gunshow some 20 years ago.

--------------------
RB

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DarylS
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Re: Beretta 45-70 to 45-90 DR conversion project progress [Re: crshelton]
#362280 - 19/02/22 10:58 AM

Quote:

851c,
Thank you for the kind words on the rifle.

The action is all left of a Beretta Gr2 SxS 12 gauge All else is exhibition wood, custom barrels, and a nice cushy recoil pad.
I do not know whether Beretta sold factory made SxS 45-70 Double rifles.

I bought this rifle from the estate of a gun maker who made it for himself and hunted deer with it for several years. He also made my Simson Suhl .405 WCF DR and knew that I wanted a 45-90 DR, but never told me that he made and was shooting this Beretta. He used medium velocity 300 grain hand loads and they shoot right through 300 pound hogs. I have the planning specifications for both rifles and they both handle and shoot just right for me.

Tight quarters!

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Beretta 45-70 to 45-90 DR conversion project progress [Re: crshelton]
#362323 - 19/02/22 08:36 PM

Quote:

The chamber extension and regulation are done and we have 4 shots in one inch at 45 yards!
The shooting was done by gun maker Aaron Little and he has good grouping. The upper right hole was a flier ( it was windy in Texas that day}.

45-90 DR with 26 inch barrels

Shooting North Fork 350 SS at 2200 - 2300 fps MV calculated as weather not conducive to use of Chrony yet.
Next step is to replace custom scope mount with Tally QD rings that clamp onto rear rib as on my .405 DR. This provides a low sighting view through the V of the standing leaf.

Excellent and lovely looking rifle. These converted shotguns of yours seem to do very well.

Is not a .45/90 approaching .450 NE levels? Can you shoot 480 gr projectiles in it? What sort of velocities? Assuming regulation can be achieved.

Looks good. Thanks for posting.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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crshelton
.333 member

Reged: 10/11/15
Posts: 379
Loc: Republic of Texas

Re: Beretta 45-70 to 45-90 DR conversion project progress [Re: NitroX]
#362336 - 20/02/22 01:49 AM

Is not a .45/90 approaching .450 NE levels? Can you shoot 480 grain projectiles in it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 45-90 .458 2.4 inch case has 96% of the capacity of the .458 Win Mag case and that allows it to be safely loaded to velocities well up into the .458 Win Mag range. Naturally there are other factors involved such as the condition of the rifle and the load components used.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, it does approach 450 NE levels and 480 grain bullets could be shot in the rifle, but I have not done that.

In my experience, 450 grain .458 North Fork FPS at 2150 fps shoot through ele heads and into the body with frontal brain shots = DRT. THose bullets and Kodiak bullets at 2150 fps shoot through Cape Buff, Bison, Water buff, etc; No need for heavier bullets.

All the above shooting with safe pressures using VV N133.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
My research and the opinion of the bullet designer suggests that the NF 350SS bullets at 2200-2300 fps will be the best all around bullet for my .45-90 rifles, the DR and my 1886. We know what the 1886 can do with these bullets and will soon learn what the DR can do. Planning some exotic game hunts when Texas winter is over.

--------------------
CRS,NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/

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crshelton
.333 member

Reged: 10/11/15
Posts: 379
Loc: Republic of Texas

Re: Beretta 45-70 to 45-90 DR conversion project progress [Re: crshelton]
#362340 - 20/02/22 02:15 AM

DarylS said "I suspect the 300gr. Nosler would be a super bullet for any of these .45 cal rifles for game in NA."

Indeed it is, in fact most thin skinned game are fair targets, Including this African leopard taken with Nosler PP at 2200 fps.

On white tailed deer and similar game the bullet is devastating. With my 1886 shooting Winchester Gold 300 grain Nosler PP from a distance of 110 yards, the bullet took out two ribs going in and 4 ribs going out; essentially destroyed the chest and all in it. This was a 6 point buck and was good eating.
MV was 1850 fps.

--------------------
CRS,NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26514
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Beretta 45-70 to 45-90 DR conversion project progress [Re: crshelton]
#362361 - 20/02/22 03:56 AM

Quote:

On white tailed deer and similar game the bullet is devastating. With my 1886 shooting Winchester Gold 300 grain Nosler PP from a distance of 110 yards, the bullet took out two ribs going in and 4 ribs going out; essentially destroyed the chest and all in it. This was a 6 point buck and was good eating.
MV was 1850 fps.

Those are the ballistics of the 300gr. .45/70 trapdoor factory load now.

I would expect an 86 in .45/70 should be able to do 2,200fps with that.
Is that what was used on the Leo?

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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crshelton
.333 member

Reged: 10/11/15
Posts: 379
Loc: Republic of Texas

Re: Beretta 45-70 to 45-90 DR conversion project progress [Re: DarylS]
#363120 - 06/03/22 08:58 AM

Daryl,
I just found your reply and question. Sorry for the delay.

You stated "Those are the ballistics of the 300gr. .45/70 trapdoor factory load now."
Not in the current Lyman load book. There it is the velocity for 1886 Win and Marlin 1895.
What I shot those white tailed deer with was factory Winchester ammo advertised to be at a MV of 1850 fps.

No, the 300 grain Nosler PP used in Africa was hand loaded to 2200 fps.
Our pre trip experiments showed that 2200 fps was the impact velocity that caused the bullet to explode, so we loaded to that MV. Since that Leopard was shot from only 20 yards, the impact velocity was not much less than 2200 fps.

This discussion does show that the 45-70 is easily up to shooting and killing African Leopard.

--------------------
CRS,NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26514
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Beretta 45-70 to 45-90 DR conversion project progress [Re: crshelton]
#363123 - 06/03/22 10:55 AM

"What I shot those white tailed deer with was factory Winchester ammo advertised to be at a MV of 1850 fps."

That is the factory .45/70 ammo I was talking about. Fed and Remington, I think - obviously Winch. as well.

2,200fps is what my Bro's .45 3 1/4" Shiloh Sharps got with 62.0gr. Re#7.

Current Hodgdon 45/70 300gr. data - Annual Manual:

Hodgdon's data for Trapdoor Springfields runs up to 28,000CUP.
Hodgdon's data for 300gr. Sierra HP runs up to 2,221fps with H4198, 2,138fps with IMR 4198, 2,142fps with H322,
2,113fps with Benchmark, 2,135fps with H335, 2,020fps with Varget. IMR 4064, IMR4895 and IMR4166 are all between 1,957fps and 1,992fps.
Their data for Lever guns runs to 40,000PSI'
their data for Modern Rifles run up to 50,000CUP.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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AZDAVE
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Reged: 12/02/09
Posts: 75
Loc: Arizona, USA

Re: Beretta 45-70 to 45-90 DR conversion project progress [Re: DarylS]
#363699 - 20/03/22 10:07 AM

Looks like Arron did his magic on your double!
You will have a great shooting double that you can hunt with anywhere in the world.

85lc I have a factory Simson in 405 that shoots amazingly well. Was made between the wars and proofed in 1933.

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crshelton
.333 member

Reged: 10/11/15
Posts: 379
Loc: Republic of Texas

Re: Beretta 45-70 to 45-90 DR conversion project progress [Re: AZDAVE]
#363702 - 20/03/22 01:01 PM

Thanks Dave. I should be able to pick it up this coming weekend.
After that some fun range time and then go hunt Texas exotics.

--------------------
CRS,NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/

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