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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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N320AW
.224 member


Reged: 15/08/05
Posts: 27
Loc: Georgia USA
Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!!
      #35938 - 16/08/05 12:55 PM

My oh my! If I died and went to heaven . . . this is the website that would be tucked under my wings! 58 years old, a Jack O'Conner/Elmer Keith/John Taylor fan, lover of fine English double rifles and a avid reloader.

I feel like Old Lonesome George Gobel on the Tonight Show many years ago . . . thus the subject intro. George came out as a guest, last, and was a little wowed by the two previous guests sitting to his right. . . Dean Martin and Bob Hope, both in tuxedos. Sipping on his drink he looked at them, looked at Carson and without cracking a smile he looked at the audience and said, " Did you ever feel like the world is a tuxedo . . . and you were a brown pair of shoes? " That's the way I feel here. You fellows talk about .500 3", .475 #2's, .470's, 500/.465's etc.the way anyone else would speak of their trusty .22LR or beat up 12 ga.! Hasn't EVERYONE got at least a couple!?

No, I don't have a Wilkes, Rigby, Manton, or Holland but we all can do a few imaginative safaris in our heads, armed with one of them. Look forward to watching the site.

One question though that interested me. One of you guys said on a forum last night that the recoil of a double essentially is different than a magazine. Could someone explain that to me. Am I to conclude that the recoil of , say a double 10 1/2 pound .470, is greater than that of my 8 1/2 pound .458 or 9 pound .416 Rigby?

Thanks to all.

--------------------
" Nature does not care whether the hunter slays the beast or the beast the hunter She will make good compost of them both and her ends are prospered whichever succeeds. "

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: N320AW]
      #35941 - 16/08/05 02:14 PM

N320AW

Hey, welcome to the place where dreams may come true. Many of the posters here never thought they ever hold a Double and now they own one.

A 10.5 pound 470 would kick less than an 8.25 pound 458 just from a physics standpoint of weight alone. A well fit Double will also feel like it has less recoil than it does because of the balance and fit it would have.

The Rigby is famous for being a strong recoiling rifle and at 9.5 pounds would also be more than a 470 IMHO. I have not run the figures, just guessing.

What kind of rifles are we talking about?



--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member


Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: N320AW]
      #35946 - 16/08/05 03:59 PM

N320AW

I am the outcast on the forum because I like Weatherbys and with inlays etc but as long as they have Made in the USA written on them.

I also think bolt actions should be in line Push Feed.

But one day I will take on the challenge of staggered feed CRF. It is good way to get to know who are the good gunsmiths.

Mike

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #35948 - 16/08/05 09:47 PM

Mike

If Weatherby made a Double rifle, complete with diamond inlays and a bubinga wood forend tip, would you buy it?

It would ,of course, have to be chambered for the famous .378 Weatherby Flanged.::grin

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: N320AW]
      #35949 - 16/08/05 09:59 PM

N320AW,

Welcome to the forum. If you stay here long enough you will surely end up owning one or more double rifles.

Why not? You only go around once in life. Live it right the first time.

Regards,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: N320AW]
      #35950 - 16/08/05 11:05 PM

N320AW,

Would that happen to be a tail number?

It all starts here. You stumble upon this site looking for totally unrelated to DR and/or big bore. Then you realize that this is a forum for the much desired, highly elusive double rifle. It's not too long before you "have" to have one. It happened to me. I now have two, to the tune $20k. Yea, Yea I know, but shit - you only live once! Saving for a 2007 safari now.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3595
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: N320AW]
      #35952 - 16/08/05 11:36 PM

N320AW:
Buying a double is just a matter of making the decision, and doing it. You will never miss the cash you could have spent on something else, but the regret of going to the grave without owning at least one good double rifle is not something I was prepared to endure for eternity!

Being a family-man of modest means, I couldn't afford my first nitro double either, so paddled around in the shallow end of the pool restoring a couple of old pommie black-powder hammer-guns, and hunting them hard. Pretty soon I was treading water in the deep-end! Then this forum appeared, and I realised that the disease is widespread! My latest double, a Manton .470 which I acquired locally late last year at a price most Americans wouldn't believe possible, could still only be justified as part of my super-annuation portfolio! When I get old , can't see the sights anymore, and it starts to kick me into next week, it will be liquidated, hopefully at a good profit. The kids can squabble over the rest after I'm gone (except my Jeffery .400: I reckon there will be room in the pine box....)!!

Where you from, N320AW? If you edit your profile to show home-country, it will be easier to discuss things like prices, availability, gunsmiths and services, etc. Here in Oz, we have a few Brit doubles floating around at good prices, whereas in the US a lot of services and new gear is cheaper and more available. Some of the things I would like to do would be a snap in the States, but are near-on impossible to organize down-under. Still, wouldn't swap the local hunting for quids!

Welcome to the forum, mate!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member


Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: mickey]
      #35953 - 17/08/05 12:14 AM

Mick,

If Wby made a double and in 378 I would be in deep financial shit. I would assume that such a double would be like the bolt action and be generally hated by forumites.....a definite attraction for me

Actually, the Searcy seems to have a little bit of Wby about it.

Mike

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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: N320AW]
      #35954 - 17/08/05 12:17 AM

Welcome to the party!

I know you'll thoroughly enjoy everything NE has to offer. As previously mentioned, after reading the post you'll soon find a way to get a double for yourself! It IS addicting!

Please post your location so we know where you are from.



--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #35957 - 17/08/05 01:05 AM

Wulff makes a double for 378/416/416 W'by's. Neat locking mechanism. Sorry to give you that info Mike. There is also the double barreled bolt gun.

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member


Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: Peterb]
      #35958 - 17/08/05 01:16 AM

A double in 378 could cause the forum to over heat and close down. It definitely would on AR.

Mike

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: Peterb]
      #35960 - 17/08/05 02:52 AM

In reply to:

There is also the double barreled bolt gun.



Come to think on it, that bolt action pushfeed double rifle looks a lot like a Weatherby, guady as hell, and about as useless! They both look a little like a "PIMP MOBILE" with reflectors, mudflaps, fake fur, and gold, and foxtail antenas!


Just kidding Mike378! I might take back the mudflaps!

N320AW , Welcome to the forum, and don't let the jokeing get to you, that goes on at every hunting camp fire! You will enjoy this forum, and not only learn,as long as you disregard all the REMAWBY, and PF nonsense, but you can bring information to the table yourself!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #35962 - 17/08/05 03:11 AM

Mac,

Don't forget the "Little Tree" air freshner hanging from the rear view mirror!

Probably a couple of "Deer Whistles" stuck to the front bumper too!


Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Mike_McGuire
.333 member


Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #35964 - 17/08/05 03:51 AM

Mac,

Here are the perfect rifles for you.

Might need to scroll to the top as the the thread seems to open half way down,

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/1411043/m/913107281/r/559102381#559102381

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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #35967 - 17/08/05 04:31 AM

Weatherby had some really good wood carvers, but absolutely the world's WORST engraver. He stated: "I don't want to be the world's best engraver, just the world's richest engraver." He was simply a miserable engraver. An Oregon W'by collector wanted some W'by style engraving done on some of his guns and asked a guild member if he would do the job. The engraver said : "Hell, NO! You would probably tell someone I did it and my reputation would be ruined!" He meant it, too.

I have a W'by trigger guard and floorplate magnificently engraved by master engraver Bob Swartley. No W'by collector will buy it because they are not used to the price of real engraving.

Mike, if you want to see some fabulous W'by's, let me know if you ever get to Oregon. The two best collections are in this state.

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member


Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: Peterb]
      #35968 - 17/08/05 04:56 AM

Peter,

I think the later Grade 3 and Grade 6 engraving is quite good but the stuff on the Crown Custom is bad. But apparently some people like it because they have been doing it that way for 30 or 40 years.

Dean in the custom shop told me it has been done that way for so long because a lot of people that buy Crown Customs have waited 20 and 30 years to get one and want to buy what they originally had their heart set on.

In my opinion the best Weaterbys are what I call the "non catologued" rifles, that is, rifle configurations of type and calibre that are not illustrated in their catolgue or website.

An example would be a Royal Custom in 378 (standard only goes to 340) and with Kreiger cut barrel and action work.

I don't know the situation in America but in Australia the financial deal changes and such rifles become much dearer than the increase in US retail would suggest.

To give you an example a standard 378 Deluxe would be about $3300AUS to $3400US. But get one with all steel bottom metal which adds $350US to the US retail and the rifles cost $5250AUS. I know that for a fact because I bought them. Although the rifles are better made as they come from the custom shop.The stocks are better than standard Deluxes, not in terms of grain but quality of finish etc.

I have two sitting at the gunshop and another pair come in a couple of months and i expect to be one of the few people in the world to collect 4 378s all on the one day. A few of us are going out together to have a 378 party

A friend of mine has a 375 that was 1 of 130 made in the early 90s. It has the quarter rib, classic stock and with Made in Japan it sounds like the most unlikely 375 you could own. But it is about the best 375 I have ever handled. The rifle has never been fired.

Mike

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #35972 - 17/08/05 08:33 AM

In reply to:

Mac,

Here are the perfect rifles for you.



................


I like the quote in the other string you posted!

"I wonder if Mr. Klin was kin to Leborache, it sure seems so! "


........................

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #35978 - 17/08/05 12:14 PM

Mike, I have had 4 .378's but NOT at the same time. It is a great caliber but severely painful withOUT a muzzlebreak. I currently have my trusty 300 (for 43 years) and a new 338/378 which is my favorite caliber. W'by made 5 of them in the 60's plus a 340/378 (same thing but different name). These were all made in the same year, but lack of proper powder killed it off. A friend has one of the originals.

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member


Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: Peterb]
      #35980 - 17/08/05 01:05 PM

Peter,

I have had the 378s before as the Made In Japan rifles with the super thin barrels and the recoil can only be described as "character building". Actually they don't recoil....they launch a personal attack on the shooter.

I had a 338/378 when they were a wildcat, back in the early 1990s. Originally it was a bench style rifle with Heavy Varmint taper and then later the barrel was reprofiled and put on a 416 Wby.

An original 340/378 would be an interesting rifle to have.

Back around 1972 I wanted a 460 and none were out here and the import agents said they would be forever coming and suggested I ring Weatherby. That was my first overseas phone call and I was 24 then. I spoke to Roy for about 30 minutes or so and a pair of 460s were ordered with 120 cases for each rifle. They had extremely nice wood and a mate of mine bought the second rifle but never shot it. About 12 months later I met another shooter and he got a 224 and 7mm Wby and also phoned Roy. Again the rifles had great wood, much better than was normally coming out here. Roy seemed to enjoy talking to people from another country.

I shot the shit out of the 460 and then sold it and then about 1992 I bought the second rifle off my mate after it had bee sitting for 20 years. It was extremely accurate but the scope was stuffed. A couple of years later I sold the rifle to one of our gun writers.

I never liked the Pendleton brake and would never own a gun a gain with integral brake. The reason being that when reduced loads were used you were stuck with the brake on the rifle.

Made in Japan was always a problem for me with Weatherby as I always saw Wbys as pure Americana, virtually the Chev Corvette of rifles.

My next two are to be 378s done similar to the Royal Customs but with the Special Select wood and Kreiger cut rifle barrels. I will get one more 460 as a Deluxe upgrade.

The Wby agency has always been a prized agency in Australia and one reason is because of how Wby do business. They never have more than one agent and all rifles must come through the agent. The current agent has been with them for the last 25 years.

The Wby Vanguard is currently the biggest selling rifle in Australia and that of course is price related.

Mike

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member


Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #35982 - 17/08/05 01:11 PM

Mac,


The bloke that owned those gold plated Wbys could have walked into H&H and bought every rifle with the cash in his pocket. He was a Texas oil man and one of the origianl investors in Weatherby.

Those rifles were in two calibres that never made it to factory status. One is a 257 necked up to 264 and the other is a 7mm on the 300 Wby case.

Roy supposedly never fired a 460 and had no interest in the calibre as it was only introduced because of the old 40 calibre limit on dangerous game.

Mike

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: Peterb]
      #35997 - 18/08/05 12:08 AM

PeterB the only place to see fancy Weatherbys and fancy cars when I was kid was Sieberts in Talent...and the cars all had California plates, black plates with yellow letters.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #36007 - 18/08/05 04:16 AM

I've made a lot of custom 338/378 KT's on 602 actions and another unmentionably ugly action (no, not a BU-21). I kept calling W'by about coming out with a 338/378 but they seemed disinterested. They then came out with the 300/378 (for some reason) and the 338/378 soon followed. I REALLY like the 338/378. About the same ballistics with a 250 gr bullet as the 300 with a 180 Gr bullet. Current powders available to us are better than the W'by powders and we can reload better than their factory ballistics. Just don't use Hornady bullets with these higher velocities. Liquid plasma comes out the barrels instead of bullets. I have loaded 250 Gr bullets to over 3450 FPS but over 3250 FPS the barrel life is destroyed quickly. With the removeable W'by muzzlebrake, recoil is mild.

By the way, although the Japanese guns are not as collectable as the German guns, the triggers are higher quality. They also have a 5/16" pin through the wrist which makes the weakly designed W'by wrist much stronger (except when W'by forgets to add the pin). I think W'by stared adding the pin on larger calibers first in the latter 60's but cannot find out for sure. They added side pins glassed in behind the recoil lug about the same time for good reason.

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member


Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: Peterb]
      #36010 - 18/08/05 04:38 AM

I reckon there are three real good things about the Wbys based on the 378 case:

1) The in line feed push feed works.

2) Most people on the forums have a strong dislike of them.

3) Wby critics in most cases have not had much to do with Wbys because their criticsm misses the main faults of the Mark V action

On the forums if you have a CRF that jams and splits the stock it is regarded as a good rifle. I would prefer a rifle that works and the more peple who dislke it then all the better.

All that Mauser shit should have a tang like a Wby or Rem 700 that sits on top of the wood. Winchester should remove the little block that is under the tang because the extra thread length is not needed but people bed around the the little block.

Mike

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Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: N320AW]
      #36048 - 18/08/05 12:38 PM

Welcome,

Its a great forum, and lots of great information here.

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Tuxedos and brown shoes !! Double rifles!! [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #36050 - 18/08/05 01:42 PM

I like their cartridges and their fine in-line feed. I would like to see a larger extractor but have not had anything personally break with one. I like the stock design...unlike some. However, when I replace a stock, I swell the butt (like Lawson). This gives more area against the shoulder and less felt recoil.

I have to send my current 338/378 back for some work. I chamber a round and try to lower the bolt, but the cartridge needs to be pushed forward more. I have never had one like this in maybe a dozen W'bys.

By the way, Mike, one of the locals has the FIRST W'by 460 on a Mk 5. It has a beautiful myrtlewood spaulded stock.

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