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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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bluedevil
.224 member


Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 40
rebore double rifles
      #35816 - 14/08/05 12:33 PM

Hello from Montana,
A while back I had the opportunity of purchasing a 400/360 William Evans, a gorgeous boxlock with full scroll, strap over the comb, burl wood -- top notch in all regards except for well-worn bores. I am curious. Have you ever considered reboring worn doubles to slightly larger diameters, in the case of the 360 (diameter 366) to 375? Or, say, a worn 450 to 470, or 333 to 338, if there was sufficient metal for the process? Also, and perhaps I am exhibiting my ignorance, but with today's advanced technology, isn't only a matter of time before we have a replating process that enables metalsmiths to recut new rifling in old pitted bores in the same caliber? It seems to me that a lot of great old doubles could be rejuvinated by the process. In any case, the price for the 360 was right, but I held off because of the bore condition. Surely this is a common hangup when it comes to doubles and I'd appreciate your opinions. Thankyou. Keith

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: rebore double rifles [Re: bluedevil]
      #35817 - 14/08/05 12:49 PM

Kieth

How did it shoot? A lot of old, worn out looking Doubles still shoot very well.

As to your question, yes it can and is done. It depends on the amount of steel etc. .366 to .375 is not that big of a jump.

I would guess about $1500 or so to have a quality company do the job and probably reregulate it. The most accurate Double I have ever seen was a Holland and Holland 450 3 1/4 that was rebored in Austria to 475#2.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3599
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: rebore double rifles [Re: mickey]
      #35833 - 14/08/05 09:58 PM

Mickey's right: the bores may appear worn but still shoot accurately. Will the seller permit you to burn some nitro in it to check the grouping, prior to purchase? I have always insisted on this myself, or no sale. In Australia in seems to be a well-accepted practice among both buyers and sellers of double rifles.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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nitro476
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120
Re: rebore double rifles [Re: bluedevil]
      #35836 - 14/08/05 11:27 PM

There was a fellow in the US by the name of Ward Koosier who did a lot of re-boring work. He was, (is) considered one of the best people to perform the task. I am not sure where he is located but he should not be to difficult to find.

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bluedevil
.224 member


Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 40
Re: rebore double rifles [Re: nitro476]
      #35845 - 15/08/05 03:28 AM

Thanks guys, I've heard of Mr. Koosier and heard he was somewhere in the Southwest -- Arizona or New Mexico. Unfortunately, the chance for the Evans passed and I also missed out, by an hour, a chance of purchasing a Manton 450/400 3-inch for $6,000. The bores were very good, the boxlock action tight, on the face, decent engraving, the wood very bad, a restocking job in order. Didn't have the money, or didn't know if it was possible, went home and talked to my wife, the boss decided yes, it was a good investment so I went back to the show and the rifle had been snatched. A lesson learned -- act when you have the chance! Or, don't wait to consult your wife! It's hell loving double rifles and being of average means. Thanks again to all of you Down Under. I sure enjoy reading the forum. Keith

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new_guy
Sponsor


Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: rebore double rifles [Re: bluedevil]
      #35868 - 15/08/05 12:34 PM

bluedevil - haven't you learned that it's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission?

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

Edited by new_guy (15/08/05 12:34 PM)

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bluedevil
.224 member


Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 40
Re: rebore double rifles [Re: new_guy]
      #35873 - 15/08/05 01:44 PM

Well, I sure have now. I just have to keep operating on the assumption, or hope, that there's always a next gun.

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: rebore double rifles [Re: bluedevil]
      #35879 - 15/08/05 02:48 PM

In reply to:

Poster: bluedevil
Subject: Re: rebore double rifles

Well, I sure have now. I just have to keep operating on the assumption, or hope, that there's always a next gun.




Or another, richer wife.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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bluedevil
.224 member


Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 40
Re: rebore double rifles [Re: mickey]
      #35909 - 16/08/05 01:13 AM

I do think the subject of reboring to larger caliber, or replating and cutting to the same caliber is of inherant interest, simply because we are talking about 100 year old rifles often shot out using corrosive cordite. Any more thoughts on this subject? Thanks, Keith

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: rebore double rifles [Re: bluedevil]
      #35918 - 16/08/05 05:36 AM

The re-boreing to the next larger caliber is not only possible, but less expencive, and retains the greater amonnt of collector value of the name on the rifle. However, if one simply wants a very good action, and wood, that comes on a quality old rifle,and collector value is less of a consideation,then a well done rebarrel is the way to go, especially if you intend keeping this rifle for hunting, and with no idea of selling it later. For around $7K+ regulation ammo, a complete re-barrel with chopper lump barrels, in the exact same configuration as the origenal, and regulated to your loads, can be had from JJ at champlin's. If the name on the rifle is that important to you, then a 100% origenal, that shoots, is the way to go.


The names are not that important to me! What I want is, a double rifle that shoots where I look, and every time I pull the trigger, little more than that is important to me! I simply do not care where my rifle is made, as long as those two features are built into it!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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vigillinus
.300 member


Reged: 11/12/03
Posts: 115
Re: rebore double rifles [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #36348 - 23/08/05 01:20 PM


Ward Koozer (correct spelling) left us many years ago. He rebored an 8x50R Austrian double, I forget the make, to .45-70 for me. Probably forty years ago. I think it was my first double rifle. Interesting action with coilspring strikers. Grouped quite well with factory ammo. I still have a Koozer rebored High Wall in .44 S&W Magnum that began life as a .25-20SS. It might actually have been the very first rifle in .44 Mag. Quite a craftsman, I vaguely recall that he was trained by P.O. Ackley - or maybe it was the other way round. At the 1997 Safari Club convention I discussed reboring with Paul Roberts, at that time he was having .350 doubles rebored to 9.4x74R by LaBounty Precision in Maple Falls, Washington. Then the rifles were regulated, remarked and refinished in England, total cost about $5000. Roberts said the Germans were mad for Brit doubles in 9.3 and the conversion actually increased a gun's value. LaBounty's own circular said he would do the rebore alone for $900. I think LaBounty has recently sold his business to one of our better known gunsmiths, but I can't locate the name at this point. When I do I will add to this post.

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vigillinus
.300 member


Reged: 11/12/03
Posts: 115
Re: rebore double rifles [Re: vigillinus]
      #36351 - 23/08/05 01:37 PM

OK, Cliff LaBounty sold his business to Jim Dubell, who has a stellar reputation as a metal worker here in the US. He is at deltagunshop.com. Do not know if he is set up to actually start work yet. He got some training from LaBounty and is also apparently getting tips from Hamilton Bowen, who is famous for custom rebored revolvers. Have no idea whether Dubell plans to take on double rifles, which I would consider the equivalent of post-graduate work.

On reflection I think my 8x50R double, previously referreed to, was a Nowotny.

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