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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: tinker]
      #353872 - 30/05/21 06:23 PM

Yes the image posted looks like it. And 70 grs BP also suggests it.

It may have been the revolver .577 Howdah that made me think that. Or soemthing like that.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Edited by NitroX (31/05/21 01:27 AM)

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TH44
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: tinker]
      #353895 - 31/05/21 08:52 AM

The .577 Snider round is a 480 grain bullet ahead of 70 grains BP with 2 inch/ 1 78" case, although Hoyem lists a 1.65" case with the same 70 grain load

All the British Ordnance (military issue)rounds were coiled brass, as was the .577/450

The only .577 alternative for handguns was the .577 revolver round, much shorter and less powerful

Note: the 4 barrelled Lancaster pistol was not offered in .577 IIRC, but the 2 barrelled O/U was in .577 revolver

These Double barrelled hammer pistols are the most interesting IMHO so if you like one go for it!

TH

Edited by TH44 (31/05/21 09:39 AM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: lancaster]
      #354478 - 21/06/21 04:48 PM

Quote:

imho, a textbook howdah in the next Holt's auction

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...374&image=3

WILKINSON & SON, LONDON
A .577 (SNIDER) DOUBLE-BARRELLED HOWDAH-PISTOL, serial no. 7990,
circa 1880, with 6 1/2in. rifled barrels, the top rib signed 'WILKINSON & SON, 27 PALL MALL LONDON', bead fore-sight on a shallow ramp, engraved band at breech, rounded side-lever opening action (traces of colour), standing notch rear-sight to front of top-strap, blued serpentine side-lever with chequered thumb-piece, scroll engraved curved back-action locks signed within engraved tri-folded banners 'WILKINSON, PALL MALL, LONDON', plain hammers, chequered walnut pistol-grip butt bearing the stamped serial number in the wood only, moulded butt-cap with central horseshoe-shaped lanyard swivel, full length trigger-guard tang and diminutive captive borderline engraved iron fore-end with traces of colour, overall length 13 1/4in., weight approximately 3 1/4lbs.










thats what it have to be





What did it sell for? Any one know? Bidding is closed. I was considering bidding

Sold for £6,500

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (22/06/21 03:19 AM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: NitroX]
      #354575 - 24/06/21 12:29 AM

Sold for £6,500

Anyone buy it here? Or know who bought it? Thanks.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Omnivorous_Bob
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: NitroX]
      #356777 - 15/09/21 05:14 PM

I've got a Wilkinson identical to the one in the top post and that TH44 posted. It was one of 3 at the AK double rifle shoot where I had the great pleasure of making TH44's company so it might have even been one of the ones he shot.

With 70 grains of Goex FFG under a piece of foam backer rod and a 480 grain bullet it averages just 710fps, and 604 with the same charge of Fg. As for regulation....uh....mine at least shoots about 2 1/2 feet apart diagonally at 15 yards off of a rest. It's the only one I've ever shot so I have no idea if that is the norm or mine is somehow defective. I haven't measured the triggers but my guess is the front is around 12lb and the rear about 15, which certainly doesn't help. I can only guess that regulation wasn't a concern at powder burn distances and that you really really didn't want an accidental discharge into your elephant.

Recoil isn't bad at all as much of the powder burns outside the barrel. Feels about like a standard velocity 44 or stiff 45acp, if even that. I've got a video of trying to put 10 rounds on a steel target from last spring I'll post when I get a bit of free time.

As an aside, I did take it on a hunt 7-8 years ago. I went on a moose hunt but neglected to apply for a caribou tag, as moose was the focus. Naturally caribou were everywhere, and once while laying prone glassing a group split in two and walked around me at arms length. The next year I went back with a caribou tag and my howdah inside my jacket in addition to my 375. I couldn't get within 500 yard of a caribou without them winding me. Oh well.

Bob



Edited by Omnivorous_Bob (15/09/21 05:35 PM)

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Omnivorous_Bob
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #356784 - 16/09/21 01:30 AM


This is from a day at the range back in May goofing off trying 10 rounds "rapid" fire (rapid being a very relative term with non-rebounding hammers!). Anyone who finds themselves in south central Montana (between Billings and Yellowstone) is welcome to give it a try, lots of big bore BP shooters here.

howdah video

Bob

--------------------
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DarylS
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #356792 - 16/09/21 07:39 AM

Cool!

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TH44
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: DarylS]
      #356798 - 16/09/21 08:02 AM

Bob - Great pics and glad to see you are still active!

I will always remember the welcome and excellent time in Alaska with Cal and all of you

Maybe in the future...............

Tony

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: TH44]
      #356808 - 16/09/21 03:13 PM

Good stuff! I want to visit you! See if you take some side on video one day.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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lancaster
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #357742 - 31/10/21 02:27 AM

http://www.holtsauctioneers.com/Gun_Room/Sept_2021_DD.pdf

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93x64mm
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: lancaster]
      #357746 - 31/10/21 08:12 AM

Quote:

http://www.holtsauctioneers.com/Gun_Room/Sept_2021_DD.pdf



Beautiful piece of kit there Lancaster, would be a handful for sure!

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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: 93x64mm]
      #367598 - 09/07/22 03:16 AM

smooth bore 24 ga in auction in italy, current bid 400 euro
https://www.czernys.com/asta-122/?o=100375











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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: lancaster]
      #367600 - 09/07/22 04:37 AM

I'd bid on that instantly even if it was just as an antique wall hanger ...

"Ancient weapons", is it classified as an antique?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (09/07/22 04:42 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: NitroX]
      #367606 - 09/07/22 02:30 PM

don't know the italian laws but thinking it need a licence, imho

--------------------
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: lancaster]
      #367644 - 11/07/22 03:59 AM

It has increased a little. I enquired via an Italian member. Waiting for a reply.

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John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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bwanabobftw
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: NitroX]
      #367668 - 11/07/22 11:16 AM

That would be so cool !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Looks like its “off the face” , I am sure you could fit a new hinge pin and tighten it up. I hope you get it John (it would be fun to work up a load and get it shooting again).
Robert

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #367685 - 11/07/22 10:18 PM

I wish. No way to bid yet.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: NitroX]
      #367686 - 11/07/22 10:20 PM

Link no longer works. Auction finished? Last price I saw was maybe E1100. Anyone know what it went to?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: NitroX]
      #367694 - 12/07/22 02:48 AM

Back again E1200. 1 day 20 hours left.

I'll make a bid if I can. Maybe a UK agent can assist?

Very expensive now if a wall hanger antique. Cheap if shootable in reasonable shape.

Anyone else bidding on it? PM me if you are? Italy is not easy to bid in.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (12/07/22 02:49 AM)

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bwanabobftw
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: NitroX]
      #367696 - 12/07/22 03:35 AM

Good luck !!!!!!!!!!!!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #367716 - 12/07/22 05:31 PM

Someone comment please.

I just noticed this is a smoothbore. Aren't most howdahs rifles?

Perhaps a reason the price is ok so far.

.577 Snider is the chambering usually.

24 bore is .579 so effectively the same bore. But what would this 24 bore small bore be? A 24-bore shotgun chambering?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (12/07/22 05:44 PM)

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bwanabobftw
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: NitroX]
      #367723 - 12/07/22 11:03 PM

I am no expert on Howdahs but the ones I have seen have all had rifling? Maybe someone chopped off a 24 gauge shotgun ?

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Marrakai
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #367725 - 13/07/22 01:01 AM

Can't imagine any maker using a top-lever action on a genuine howdah pistol.
Sure way to split the web of your thumb under recoil!
Jones under-levers or side-levers are the norm on those I've seen.

My first thought was sawn-off shotgun, but I didn't want to sound critical...

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
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www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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lancaster
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: Marrakai]
      #367728 - 13/07/22 03:08 AM

have seen a howdah that was a 20 ga blackpowder smooth bore for roundballs togehter with another pistol that was made for the 577 snider.
this pistol is not a sawed off shotgun, its clearly to see this was made - probably in liege/belgium - this way.

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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TH44
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Re: .577 Howdah [Re: Marrakai]
      #367729 - 13/07/22 03:32 AM

Marrakal (and all)

My inclination like yourself, is for a cut down shotgun for the following reasons

Length 35cm, is the same as the one below, most cartridge ones are 30cm 12 inches

the lock plates are straight, the main giveaway IMHO and smoothbore

Top lever as you say, but not sure although I have not seen one, are they out there?

If it has been completely re-stocked it has been done well if modified like mine it is easy to see in hand

The push button fore end looks good, the one below is 4 inches clearly cut down, the one on a scabby 24 bore shotgun I bought a few months ago is over 6 inches

I bought this very c heap a couple of years ago knowing what it was, having seen a couple here in the UK as the pinfires are classes as antique no licence (as is 24 bore)





It is a very poor Spanish 16 bore but interesting in its own right

AS for the one in Italy posted, if local I would like a look and probably give it a punt but only after close examination

What do others think?

TH

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