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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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Ahmed577
.333 member


Reged: 13/06/13
Posts: 261
Loc: Western Australia
Battery of 9.
      #357231 - 03/10/21 07:10 PM

The PURDEY battery of 9 has arrived at pro tactical QLD. Covid stopped my travels for handover in London. Will drive over and collect as soon as COVID allows. Holts PURDEY WEBLEY REVOLVER is also on its way. I lost my deposit( 50%) with ANDERSON WHEELER on the 2 revolvers (webley style) he was to supply.

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bwanabobftw
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/04
Posts: 307
Loc: Texas
Re: Battery of 9. [Re: Ahmed577]
      #357242 - 04/10/21 12:51 PM

Ahmed577,
I had the same thing happen with my deposit (50% as well) on my Webley revolver with Stuart !!!!!!!!! Glad your Purdy’s are in Country !!!!!!!!
Robert


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Ahmed577
.333 member


Reged: 13/06/13
Posts: 261
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Battery of 9. [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #357243 - 04/10/21 01:31 PM

Robert I had ordered a pair of 357s to be engraved to match the Purdeys using the same same PURDEY engraver. It was a solid loss. However that is the reason I bought the HOLTS June 2021 WEBLEY that was sold by PURDEY SHOP TO A PURDEY AS HIS 1st world war officers revolver ( father gifted to son ). Anderson Wheeler is not well versed on how to behave in such circumstances.

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bwanabobftw
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/04
Posts: 307
Loc: Texas
Re: Battery of 9. [Re: Ahmed577]
      #357245 - 04/10/21 11:54 PM

Ahmed,
I ordered a single pistol for my son S/N 10 for graduation from college. Like you “a total loss”, I visited their shop (now closed) several times and was very excited about their Webley. I am glad you were able to buy the “Purdy Pistol” , that’s a great piece of history !!!!!!
Robert


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JTOMLINSON
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Reged: 16/02/05
Posts: 181
Loc: York, England
Re: Battery of 9. [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #357247 - 05/10/21 04:56 AM

Robert

Would you mind me asking why, given a 50% down payment AW have not come good on the contract to the extent it is a total loss to you, unless I am missing something that is somewhat a breach of contract, has the company gone belly up perhaps.?

I live in the UK but hadn’t heard anything adverse about them until Colin’s post about his two Webleys

Jonathan

Edited by JTOMLINSON (05/10/21 05:16 AM)


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bwanabobftw
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/04
Posts: 307
Loc: Texas
Re: Battery of 9. [Re: JTOMLINSON]
      #357249 - 05/10/21 12:17 PM

Jonathan,
I am really not sure on the status of “AndersonWheeler” as a company. The last time I was in London their shop was no longer there. I used to see Stuart at the Dallas Safari shows however year before last he was not there. My emails about the pistol go unanswered. I also visited with another fine arms dealer in the USA who bought several of the Webley pistols who also has not heard from him (or received his pistols). I really don’t know what has happened to him but I have written off my small loss. I know he had one Webley made up because I held it at the Dallas show several years ago.I have a feeling this one was handmade and the only one ever to be produced. I had really tried to put the whole episode out of my mind until I read Ahmed’s post. I have bought, sold and traded a lot of guns in my life, this is the first time I have ever been taken. I actually really like Stuart I just wish he would make the guns he has promised everyone. Jonathan I hope this answers your question.
Robert


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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3022
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Battery of 9. [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #357250 - 05/10/21 02:59 PM

"Reliability is of paramount importance to us at Anderson Wheeler"

"All agreements of your offer to purchase goods are entirely subject to their availability. Our acknowledgement of order acceptance via e-mail or web is not a guarantee of delivery."

Just a couple of random quotes from their webpage...

They do offer this however:
"In the event the items you have ordered are not available, you will be contacted, offered an alternative or a full refund issued. If we are only able to fulfil part of your order, payment will be taken for your whole order and then on dispatch a full refund for the unavailable goods will be issued."

...at which point the reader can conclude that the first quote above (...reliability...) would appear to be rubbish, although the second quote (...not a guarantee of delivery...) is obviously quite true.

Whatever the reason, its a real shame they were not able to get the manufacture of a new mark of Webley's classic revolver up and running.

My suspicions would include UK Government interference.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 33105
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Battery of 9. [Re: Marrakai]
      #357252 - 05/10/21 07:18 PM

Sorry Gentlemen to hear of your losses.

The first I knew of any problems was when Colin first mentioned difficulties with his order.

It is a pity the new Webley production has not succeeded. The prototype A-W Mk VII, I think it was called, looked very nice and useful in the modern .357 Magnum. I only saw the images displayed here on NE and elsewhere, no attending any USA gunshows. The price being asked was considerable for a revolver and outside my wallet's range. I would have loved to order one otherwise. Happy now to not to be able to .

I do not know how the prototype was made, but handmade or substantially is probably a good guess. Per Stuart A-W's comments it was to be made in the UK when production started..

I did visit Stuart in London. Arrived a bit late, and Stuart had some tax accounting meetings or something, so it turned into a very unsatisfying visit. A quick walk around the shop. Then met Stuart at a pub that evening where Micheal Yardley was as well. And that was that. Not happy to travel to the UK where one person to visit was quite inadequate.

However I did speak to Stuart A-W about every year or so on the phone for an hour or so each time.

Stuart Anderson-Wheeler is or was working as a PH and safari outfitter, I presume, in Tanzania and Africa. His family I believe owned the A-W "Gunmaker" in the UK. With a shop in the West End of London. The shop also sold skins, trophies, assorted high end hunting paraphenalia, wine or whiskey custom made bottle carriers etc. And also sold guns, I assume as a gun dealer. They had racks of guns in the basement.

At the time Anderson-Wheeler were selling a double rifle substantially made by Verney-Carron, as many people could see from the design of the rifle. This .500 NE appeared in the James Bond movie "Skyfall".

Later the ambitious plan to create the Anderson-Wheeler Mk VII (Webley styled) revolver in .357 Magnum appeared.

I was keen to see more of it, and Stuart promised me early exclusive access to promotion images etc of it. BTW that never happened. It took a while for them to get started on it, and the first I knew they were selling, was when they were at the gun shows and people were ordering.

So what happened?

To my knowledge, or was told, at some point the A-W family SOLD the business to a I believe US based person. Stuart A-W continued in some capacity. The new owner closed the West End shop and the premises was moved to country or country town area, anyway, not in expensive Central London. Also Stuart said they had trouble with antis at the shop window, I assume periodic vandalism. A full mounted lion in the window and other stuff probably does attract all the hunt saboteurs and wannabe types. Most London gunshops have very little display and mainly signage.

The new owners, per Stuart had ambitious plans to create a range of rifles and shotguns, in addition to the Webley style revolver. I never was told details of exactly what this range would include.

The A-W facebook page was taken down, and Stuart's own disappeared. He said he did not have the time for fb. Others in the established guntrade have done this, so it is not unusual. FB in particular is full of wannabes and people with such a basic knowledge only it can be frustrating at times. As well as people very knowledgeable and experienced, the grain with lots of chaff. The A-W webpage also eventually went down.

A year or so later I was still interested in how the plans were going and got in touch with Stuart. It took a month for him to call back, and I missed the call. I never followed up. At some point I think Stuart was no longer connected to the business, an impression I got.

Now was this brand a fake? They had a real shopfront, with real stock, and employees including one knowledgeable guy. They arranged a Verney-Carron A-W branded double rifle as their own, used in a movie and I believe sold and delivered some (?). A prototype Webley was created. It was promoted and orders and deposits taken.

My guess is cashflow and working capital was a problem, if an outside investor/purchaser of the business came in. The ambitious range of rifles and shotguns never appeared. It might also be difficult to manufacture and especially SELL and MARKET handguns in the UK where ownership of handguns is banned.

Having worked for an insolvency practitioner when in University, I can guess somethings. It is a pity customers having paid deposits can't at least get an explanation.

Unlike a Danish "gunmaker" where people made losses from dr deposits and there was little to backup the orders, A-W did have real premises, a real business, did make and deliver real sales. Including guns drs, knives, other stuff.

I have NO idea who the outside owner who came in was, assuming that was true? A corporate search on company records in the UK would confirm this for anyone interested.

That is what I know for those interested.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 33105
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Battery of 9. [Re: NitroX]
      #357253 - 05/10/21 07:24 PM

It's a pity this is all on Colin's Purdey Battery of 9 thread. I think a new thread to celebrate that impressive armoury is needed.

Colin, I hope you hire a professional or skilled gun photographer to take lots of studio images for prosperity of your supermodels!

(A skill I need to personally develop! is studio gun photos, I suspect my failings are in the artificial lighting.)

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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JTOMLINSON
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Reged: 16/02/05
Posts: 181
Loc: York, England
Re: Battery of 9. [Re: NitroX]
      #357254 - 05/10/21 09:40 PM

John

Many thanks for the detailed exposition on the demise of AW, probably the Covid lockdown here in the UK did not help either, another big casualty being William Asprey and his flagship store William and Son on Bruton Street, London where the monthly shop rent was said to be £200,000 per calendar moth at a time when all shops were forced to close due to the virus.

Not that this helps those who paid out deposits for guns they never got.

I too look forward to picture of Colin’s battery of 9. I was fortunate to see 8 of them when down at Purdey’s in 2019, at that time the 10 bore rifled choke gun was still at the factory. needless to say they were stunning, even when covered in my drool!, would love to see pictures of them resplendent in their fitted oak and leather cases.

Jonathan


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 33105
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Battery of 9. [Re: JTOMLINSON]
      #357255 - 05/10/21 10:21 PM

Quote:


probably the Covid lockdown here in the UK did not help either





I was impressed by the Rigby guys who during the first lock down in London, that they did a lock in. Stayed and lived at the factory and kept making their customers guns. Top notch guys. Never met them though. Marc deserves a lot of credit for the success of the new Rigby.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1467
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Battery of 9. [Re: NitroX]
      #357256 - 05/10/21 10:37 PM

Some years ago the German gunmaker Janz http://janz-revolver.de/index.php/impressum-2 made at least one Webley Mk VI copy, seven shot .357 Magnum too. Shown and described in VISIER #9, 2018, and at the IWA 2019, it looked like a twin of the AW offering of the same time, including the figure of the wood grips. Just pure coincidence?

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bwanabobftw
.333 member


Reged: 29/12/04
Posts: 307
Loc: Texas
Re: Battery of 9. [Re: kuduae]
      #357257 - 05/10/21 11:30 PM

John,
I completely agree, a new thread to showcase the “Battery of 9”.
Robert


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Pugwash
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Reged: 24/03/07
Posts: 101
Loc: Scotland,UK
Re: Battery of 9. [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #357262 - 06/10/21 06:05 PM

Just out of interest would there actually be much interest in a new Webley Revolver?I know it had taken Anderson Wheeler a long time to get this project going but I cant see that there would be any problems with the manufacture.The only problem in the UK would be the licencing.

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HeymSR20
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 189
Loc: Scotland
Re: Battery of 9. [Re: Pugwash]
      #357299 - 09/10/21 08:37 AM

Picking up on the Anderson Wheelers comments

Their website seems alive at

http://andersonwheeler.co.uk/contact/

Address is

Anderson Wheeler Limited
1 Wide Street. Portland
Dorset, DT5 2LN
ENGLAND

Contact Telephone: +44 (0) 1372 477170

A quick search of Companies House says that they are Active but proposal to strike off the company

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08447121

There is a Gazette Notice to strike off the company. It looks as if all the original directors resigned in 2018.

There is one director who was appointed in 2019.

It rather looks to me as if this is a business being wound up. If you paid a deposit to the company you are a creditor of the business and I would suggest you write to the registered address and the current director asap stating that you paid a deposit, the product has not been delivered therefore you have a claim against the company. It may well be worth putting in a claim via the UK small claims - more info here https://www.gov.uk/make-money-claim

At least if you get on the creditors list you will be kept in the loop - you cannot simply wind up a company if there are still outstanding creditors. But you may only get a few pence in the pound if at all, but if you are not on the creditors list you won’t get anything.


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