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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: fuhrmann]
      #354474 - 21/06/21 09:38 AM

Wow! That's some pretty serious engraving right there.

again..... WOW!!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3978
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: Marrakai]
      #354475 - 21/06/21 10:11 AM

Quote:

Wow! That's some pretty serious engraving right there.

again..... WOW!!



Not wrong there........beautiful piece (& calibres to boot as well)!

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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8716
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: 93x64mm]
      #356162 - 19/08/21 05:50 AM

Haetje Berlin Drilling 12 ga +11mm rifle caliber ( maybe 11mm Mauser)
https://www.ader-paris.fr/lot/115659/15478891?offset=50&











--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8716
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: lancaster]
      #356560 - 05/09/21 02:05 AM

J.J. Reeb, Bonn combination gun 16 ga + 11,15x60r with extra double gun barrels
https://www.gebrauchtwaffen-spezialist.d...echsellauf.html















Joh. Kaletzky K .K. Österr. & Hahnbockbüchsflinte O/U 24 ga + 7x72R
https://www.gebrauchtwaffen-spezialist.d...echsflinte.html















--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39206
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: lancaster]
      #356569 - 05/09/21 10:06 AM

Quote:

J.J. Reeb, Bonn combination gun 16 ga + 11,15x60r with extra double gun barrels
https://www.gebrauchtwaffen-spezialist.d...echsellauf.html



Joh. Kaletzky K .K. Österr. & Hahnbockbüchsflinte O/U 24 ga + 7x72R
https://www.gebrauchtwaffen-spezialist.d...echsflinte.html

1jh.jpg[/image]




3000 and 4000 Euros respectively. More than I thought might be in Germany. Liked these old vintage guns, pretty examples of some old cartridge choices. One is a 24 guage, I imagine that is quite rarer to load for? The rifle cartridges as well sound older and harder to feed.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (05/09/21 10:01 PM)

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: NitroX]
      #356584 - 05/09/21 04:12 PM

the 7x72R is one of the oldest Wilhelm Brenneke developments. in fact a 9,3x72R case necked down to 7 mm, looks like a real small bore nitro express cartridge http://old.municion.org/7mm/7x72R.htm

you can use 9,3x72R brass and modern 7 mm bullets for reloading.

the 24 ga is still available by FIOCCHI https://fiocchi.com/en/catalog/your-passion/hunting.html?animals=6362&gauge=6214

and its not expensive at all but cost similar to more common caliber. I know it because there is also a 24 ga hammergun in the safe. of course, I have 24 ga magtech brass in case it would dry up once.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8716
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Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: Marrakai]
      #365107 - 01/05/22 04:58 AM

stiegele combination gun, 16 ga +10x47R https://auctionet.com/de/2138980-kombi-d...he-nr-se2307932



















































--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3978
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: lancaster]
      #365112 - 01/05/22 07:43 AM

Way over the top for my tastes, but you have to admire the workmanship, just superb!
The carvings & engravings alone would have taken hundreds of hours alone
Has some surprising details, a Damascus shot barrel & pop up peep sight, let alone a horn operating handle & grip as well.
I wonder when it was made Lancaster?

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: 93x64mm]
      #365132 - 02/05/22 02:54 AM

by the cartridge I would say between 1890 and 1900

iirc this was the timeframe when stiegele in münchen, bavarian court gunmaker, made the very first drillings.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: lancaster]
      #368298 - 13/08/22 11:29 PM

Collath style drilling but by Jung/Suhl 16 ga +8x72R with a short rifle barrel
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101989449














--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3978
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Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: lancaster]
      #368317 - 14/08/22 07:13 AM

I have to ask Lancaster!
Is the little lever arrangement under the antler grip the trigger for the rifle barrel, or just for setting the firing pin spring for it?

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lancaster
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Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: 93x64mm]
      #368328 - 14/08/22 02:59 PM

this is a manuel cocking action, thinking the little lever under the grip is for uncock the action

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: lancaster]
      #368344 - 14/08/22 08:34 PM

Apparently Friedrich Jung, Suhl, combined the Teschner/Collath breech action with the triggerplate lockwork of the Feist, Meffert “Hubertus Safety Gun". Here is a photo of my “Hubertus” double lockwork, uncocked and on “Safe”.

It works this way: The hammers are brought back to the full cock position by moving the opening lever under the foreend. To put the gun on “fire”, you press the grip lever up until it is caught by the catch behind. This puts tension on the mainspring. Now the gun works like any other hammerless. Opening the breech recocks the lock and you may continue shooting without further movements.
To put the gun on “safe” you release the catch behind the grip lever. The lever snaps down, relieving the tension of the main spring. This also activates a slide on the triggerplate, blocking the sear and rebounding the hammer off the firing pin. Now the gun may be carried fully loaded, but without tension of the mainspring and with all other lockparts blocked. The barrel selector switch of this drilling is a slide on the top strap like as on most conventional drillings.

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93x64mm
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Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: kuduae]
      #368345 - 14/08/22 09:06 PM

Thank you Kuduae & Lancaster!
Marvellously clever bit of engineering really - very smart men to work this out in their minds.

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: 93x64mm]
      #368357 - 15/08/22 06:25 AM

Quote:

Marvellously clever bit of engineering really - very smart men to work this out in their minds.


The basic “Hubertus Safety Gun” was invented by the forester Franz Feist of Sommerschenburg and protected by the DRPatent No. 7142 in 1879. Feist assigned his patent to Immanuel Meffert, Suhl, who made the guns to Feist’s design. The photo shows the locks of a very early Meffert “Hubertus” gun, still very close to Feist’s original design, in the fully cocked and “fire” mode:

In 1893 Meffert improved the action. He designed the U-shaped mainspring shown above, protected the design change by DRGM Nr. 32200 and used the design at least until WW1.
By 1900 both protections were expired. So F. Jung was free to use the Feist – Meffert lockwork. The 8x72R cartridge was developed by Wilhelm Brenneke, Leipzig, in1898. That Jung drilling most likely dates to 1910 – 14 imho.

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lancaster
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Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: kuduae]
      #368378 - 15/08/22 05:37 PM

another interesting feature is the short rifle barrel. it was a little fashion for some time before the war to made drillings lighter.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: lancaster]
      #368379 - 15/08/22 05:52 PM

Interesting works.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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sharps4590
.333 member


Reged: 09/03/16
Posts: 250
Loc: Missouri Ozarks
Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: NitroX]
      #368396 - 15/08/22 09:35 PM

My Thieme & Schlegelmilch has the rifle barrel shorter than the shotgun tubes. Best guess for it is around 1905.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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lancaster
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Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: sharps4590]
      #368403 - 16/08/22 04:03 AM

I see this also in this time frame. it was a short lived fashion and I think most hunter don't realy like this and were willing to accept the weight of a common rifle barrel.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: lancaster]
      #368560 - 23/08/22 04:50 PM

first Vierling for a rimless rifle cartridge I see, Borovnik in Ferlach 16ga + 308 Win +22 hornet
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=18421546













--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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sharps4590
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Reged: 09/03/16
Posts: 250
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Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: lancaster]
      #368568 - 23/08/22 09:58 PM

Quote:

I see this also in this time frame. it was a short lived fashion and I think most hunter don't realy like this and were willing to accept the weight of a common rifle barrel.




It's the only drilling I own in that configuration and I don't mind it, EXCEPT; I prefer to shoot cast bullets in all my rifles that will accurately shoot them. My T&S will shoot them accurately but, it also lead plates the bottom of the shotgun barrels. It took me an hour or so to get the lead off the bottom of the shotgun barrels first time I tried cast bullets. No big thing, I just shoot jacketed bullets in it.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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lancaster
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Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: 93x64mm]
      #369320 - 18/09/22 01:51 AM

Sauer & Sohn hammer drilling 16 ga + 10,75x52R Gründig
sold by J. Nikitits in Constantinopel
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=18445154
wonder what the history is









































--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: lancaster]
      #369321 - 18/09/22 01:56 AM

What's the second lever for?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8716
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: NitroX]
      #369326 - 18/09/22 02:20 AM

probably for cocking the rifle barrel

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1770
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Re: Combination Gun of the Week [Re: NitroX]
      #369327 - 18/09/22 04:08 AM

Quote:

What's the second lever for?


A Sauer & Sohn, Suhl, hammer drilling Model XX. Made about 1890 according to serial number and lack of official German proofmarks. The “wild man” was a S&S trademark, while that eagle and the crowns were their private quality marks.
It is of common German hammer drilling design. The “Serpent” side lever is the action opening lever. The small top lever is the barrel selector. Pushing it over to the left moves a transfer bar in between the breast of the right hammer and the firing pin of the rifle barrel, barely visible in the 6th photo. At the same time that transfer bar blocks the hammer nose from hitting the right shot barrel firing pin.

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