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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Handguns

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Ripp
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It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts
      #356359 - 26/08/21 06:43 AM

Stopped by a local gun shop today.. had an estate sale going on.. husband died ..had over 1,000 Colt handguns...

Saw these two, like new or new.. good price.. SO,, they come home with me..

Colt 1873 Model in .45LC
Colt Diamondback in .22 rimfire..

20210825_122112 by A Hoffart, on Flickr

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Marrakai
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: Ripp]
      #356362 - 26/08/21 08:27 AM

...and today is Handgun Thursday!!

But how do you trump that Colt .45?

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Marrakai
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Ripp
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: Marrakai]
      #356368 - 26/08/21 11:35 PM

Quote:

...and today is Handgun Thursday!!

But how do you trump that Colt .45?




Not sure.. I have been looking at the list since I was there.. IF I had an extra truck load of cash I would have come back with a truck load of Colts... Pretty sure I will grab 1 or 2 more before they are gone.. They had 3 Colt model 1873 in 44 special.. all new, in a box.. THAT would be a good start...

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Homer
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: Ripp]
      #356379 - 27/08/21 09:39 AM

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Multiple Donuts!

Avagreatweekendeh!
Homer

--------------------
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Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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lancaster
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: Homer]
      #356394 - 28/08/21 06:48 AM

classic pistols, if cared well another customer would come into a gunshop and like to have them in 40 years from now.

--------------------
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85lc
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: lancaster]
      #356402 - 29/08/21 01:45 AM

Ripp,
Wow, a thousand Colts for sale at reasonable prices. You made great choices. I agree about the 44 Specials. That and the 45 are wonderful cartridges in a SA, particularly a 1873 Colt. They are easy to carry and have the right power, particularly if reasonably handloaded with SWC cast bullets.

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RB


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: Ripp]
      #356415 - 30/08/21 02:14 PM

Quote:

Stopped by a local gun shop today.. had an estate sale going on.. husband died ..had over 1,000 Colt handguns...

Saw these two, like new or new.. good price.. SO,, they come home with me..

Colt 1873 Model in .45LC
Colt Diamondback in .22 rimfire..

20210825_122112 by A Hoffart, on Flickr




Wow. I love the "sixgun", the 1873. Amazing to think this model was first available in 1873 when many might still have used a muzzle loader handgun.

I would love one of these one day. Who wouldn't? And who hasn't played with one as a toy as a kid. I have one or two cap gun, full steel, black, with white ivory (plastic) grips. No idea where they are? Hope they are not lost, or given away by my mother to my nephew like lots of old toy cars were. A lot of these would have been valuable now adays.

So I need to get a real shooting one now, to replace.

Well done on the purchaes and no doubt purchaes to come!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: NitroX]
      #356416 - 30/08/21 02:15 PM

PS Our resident cowboy, Ripp, needs a sixgun.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Ripp
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: NitroX]
      #356437 - 31/08/21 01:21 AM

Quote:

PS Our resident cowboy, Ripp, needs a sixgun.




I now have several.. and plan to get more.. they are just plain fun to have and shoot. Like you, I wanted a Colt 1873 my entire life.. Got one last year and now got this one.. My father-in-law has quite an extensive collection of them.. but not 1,000 like the guy who had this collection..

One of our resident gunsmiths to this site, Tinker, is currently working on one for me..It is a Ruger Vaquero..having it upgraded a bit.. barrel, sights, etc..

--------------------
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Hunter4752001
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: Ripp]
      #356450 - 31/08/21 01:37 PM

What's amazing about it? Webley was building reliable double action revolvers from 1860. They were solid frame models which had to be reloaded in the same fashion as single action revolvers. By 1876 patents were issued for the Webley Pryse double action revolver which was a top break design which simplified the reloading issue. In tern they quickly developed speedloader arrangements. Which means that while the 'cowboys' were dicking about with single actions, the Brits were using double action revolvers capable of being quickly reloaded.

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Ripp
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: Hunter4752001]
      #356462 - 01/09/21 01:03 AM

Quote:

What's amazing about it? Webley was building reliable double action revolvers from 1860. They were solid frame models which had to be reloaded in the same fashion as single action revolvers. By 1876 patents were issued for the Webley Pryse double action revolver which was a top break design which simplified the reloading issue. In tern they quickly developed speedloader arrangements. Which means that while the 'cowboys' were dicking about with single actions, the Brits were using double action revolvers capable of being quickly reloaded.




Seems to me you should get a Webley then if that's your fancy???

Per this article it was more like in the mid 1870's .. so they probably just copied Smith and Wessons Schofield..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webley_Revolver.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_3

For me what is special?? First they are not butt ass (pun intended) ugly like a Webley.

Secondly, I like them.. Feel good in my hand, accurate and what I prefer. If you prefer otherwise, then follow your heart and do so..

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lancaster
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: Ripp]
      #356486 - 02/09/21 01:55 AM

if you look for the year a new revolver model came on the market you don't get the story complete.
a colt peacemaker coming out in 1873 was an expensive toy not everyone could afford then. mayny people were still using older cap and ball revolver still into the 1880s or 1890s because they dont had the money for such an quality gun.
the webley revolver was probably an equal expensive gentleman pistol comon people don't had the money then. in europe including the uk there was the flood of cheap made belgian revolvers, most time pinfire, for the masses.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Ripp
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: lancaster]
      #356487 - 02/09/21 02:41 AM

Quote:

if you look for the year a new revolver model came on the market you don't get the story complete.
a colt peacemaker coming out in 1873 was an expensive toy not everyone could afford then. mayny people were still using older cap and ball revolver still into the 1880s or 1890s because they dont had the money for such an quality gun.
the webley revolver was probably an equal expensive gentleman pistol comon people don't had the money then. in europe including the uk there was the flood of cheap made belgian revolvers, most time pinfire, for the masses.




Found this on-line..and have seen it in numerous places..cost when first introduced was $17.50.. back then THAT was a fair bit of money.. probably not readily affordable to the average cowboy initially anyway I am guessing...

In today's world, a first generation is bring a lot of money.. saw numerous ones in the collection that have a 3-$5,000. price tag on them..


This article is a bit outdated.. 2009 I believe.. but pretty much holds true today..

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- There is an old and apocryphal saying that "a good handgun is worth an ounce of gold" and it turns out to be true -- at least it has for the past 136 years.

Because it is basically unchanged after 136 years of continuous production and because there is a healthy, liquid market for it, a good example of this case can be made by tracing the price of "The Gun that Won the West," the Colt Single-action Army revolver. The venerable Peacemaker turns out to be a better gauge of inflation than gold is and a better investment. President Ronald Reagan even named a missile after it.

The correlation of gold and guns can be traced back at least to 1873 when Colt's Manufacturing Company of Hartford, Conn., introduced the most technologically advanced handgun of its time, a six-shot revolver that used metallic cartridges. The Army adopted it as its standard side arm, a position it held until 1892. The innovation of metallic cartridges made it easier to reload in a hurry. Reloading had always been an issue because it was slow, unwieldy and required some expertise. Now anybody could do it.


In 1873 the Colt SAA sold for $17.50. The complete kit with a holster and some ammunition could be covered by a $20 gold piece. The $20 Double Eagle of 1873 contained 0.9675 ounces of pure gold. Today an ounce of gold is about $1,090 and a new Colt SAA can be special ordered from Colt's custom shop for about $1,500.

As a collector's item the Colt fares even better. A recent check of Collectorsfirearms.com found scores of listings at a wide variety of prices from $1,699 at the bottom to $175,000 asked for a Colt "Pinch Frame" called "the Holy Grail of single action collecting." This gun carries the serial number 58. So your $20 gold piece spent on this gun in 1873 would have returned 874900%.

Gold Double Eagle $20 coins from that year can be found on line for $1500 to $5000 depending on condition about the same price as Colt SAA's of similar age and condition.

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lancaster
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: Ripp]
      #356488 - 02/09/21 03:01 AM

have read that handmade shoes cost allways the same in gold today what they cost 100 years ago. anyway, this 20$ must have been a lot of money than.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
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Ripp
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: lancaster]
      #356495 - 02/09/21 05:48 AM

Quote:

have read that handmade shoes cost allways the same in gold today what they cost 100 years ago. anyway, this 20$ must have been a lot of money than.




I remember my Dad telling me they would go to town with horses to buy food when he was a kid.. Said they had less than $5. on them.. But it was enough to warrant the 28 mile round trip into town .. Yes, $20. was a lot of money..

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3DogMike
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: Hunter4752001]
      #356517 - 03/09/21 12:33 PM

Quote:

What's amazing about it? Webley was building reliable double action revolvers from 1860. They were solid frame models which had to be reloaded in the same fashion as single action revolvers. By 1876 patents were issued for the Webley Pryse double action revolver which was a top break design which simplified the reloading issue. In tern they quickly developed speedloader arrangements. Which means that while the 'cowboys' were dicking about with single actions, the Brits were using double action revolvers capable of being quickly reloaded.



The Webley series; not exactly the best looking girl at the dance? This is a "Boer War" era Mk4 .455 that will never have won a beauty contest



As well, one must admit that the .45 Colt cartridge beats the original .455 Webley cartridge for power factor hands down…..
.45 Colt originally 40 grains of black powder, 255 grain bullet @ circa 900'/sec (later reduced)
.455 Webley originally ~15-20 grains of black powder, 265 grain bullet @ circa 650'/sec

This and the solid frame of the Colt is certainly stronger than the hinged top break of the Webley.

Quite true the Webley is a quicker reload just as is the Smith & Wesson Schoefield.

Which was in service longer?….certainly the Webley in it's Mk1 thru Mk6 iterations
(lest one forget, General George Patton wore Ivory stocked Colt Single Actions in WWII)

Now, all this said, I have a great affinity for my above MK4 ….. great fun at the range. It is not a powerhouse like a .45 Colt, but was good enough for shooting unarmored opponents at close range.
Oh….and I somehow doubt the reality of either 'cowboys' or 'Poms' dicking about trying to reload ANY revolver on a plunging horse in a close quarters engagement?
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: Hunter4752001]
      #356532 - 03/09/21 04:43 PM

Quote:

What's amazing about it? Webley was building reliable double action revolvers from 1860.




What is amazing about it? Or the Webley for that matter?

Multiple shot hanguns using a brass case. Able to fire five or size cartridges, I assume without reloading. Why the Colt was called the "six gun".

When many military long arms were single shot rifles. Perhaps bras sor paper cased.

Many handguns were probably still muzzle loaders.

And the average guy, farmer almost certainly could not afford the latest modern brass cased firearms, and still used muzzle loading shotguns, rifles or handguns. And if more modern single or double barrelled longarms, shotguns, cape guns.

I have one of my ancestors muzzle loading shotguns still. I think it was still usuable pre WW1 or pre WW2. My grandfather buried it or one like it during one of the Word Wars when the authorities were confiscating civilian firearms off "German named" Australian born citizens. By the pommie born bastards .... Being buried caused it to rust and ruined it. It was buried because they were unsure whether it was registered and decided to not take the chances of being locked up for having a German name and owning an unregistered muzzle loading shotgun ....

So anyway, a brass case five or six shot, revolver would have been quite a novelty. Only affordable by the military or the wealthier persons.

I am not sure what the equivalent would be for the change of the era firearms from muzzle loading BP firearms to brass cased and cased breech loadings, expecially firearms of more than one shot with magazines? Perhaps when the sci fi laser guns eventually or ever get made! Our old brass cased fully auto firearms, semi autos, bolt actions or older will be obsolete. But for decades no one will have a laserblaster!

Or perhaps one day caselss ammo. I have written in my head. , a sci fi novel where the firearms use liquid explosive or a small squirt of gas, to propell the projectile. No open bolt needed to eject a used case. The internal bol movement only needs to chamber the projectile, so the cyclic rate would be a multiple of the current 600 to 1200 rounds per minute. Or 6000 to 12000 rpm for caseless gatling style cannon/MGs. Such a gas or liquid propellant firearm's magazines could be far smaller or carry ten times the "ammo" of case magazines, so instead of say 30 rifle rounds, perhaps 300 projectiles in a mag. A small gas bottle of propellant. No primer, use electric ignition. Dust, moisture and debris proof desing, just an escaping gas port. The action could be substantially sealed and closed excpet for cleaning or fixing jams. The overall length much shorter.

The closest I think has been a German desinged rifle using solid propellant and no brass case. I assume it was not successful operationally.

Ha ha, my mad thoughts.

But imagine such caseless firearms coming onto the scene. Most of us would be using our old brass case guns for many decades still.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: NitroX]
      #356533 - 03/09/21 04:45 PM

Quote:


But imagine such caseless firearms coming onto the scene. Most of us would be using our old brass case guns for many decades still.




.... and still enjoying our old clunkers.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: NitroX]
      #356534 - 03/09/21 04:56 PM

What is amazing about it?

I was just thinking about reading Aussie bushranger history. If one reads about Australia's "Wild West", colonial days, gold rush days, the bushrangers, and their gun battles and shoot outs, the scenes are very different from the modern American "Wild West" movies. I assume the real American "Wild West" stories are also similar. Though US history was already the mark of the sensationalist booklet writer!

The actual gun battles of the time had guys blazing away at each other, often at quite short ranges, no one hitting anyone with many shots. Perhaps a wound or two. And anguish when someone was shot dead. Usually. Not accurate deadly fire of marksmen.

I don't pretend to be a historical firearms and when they existed. And have forgotten more than I remember. But cap and ball revolvers, muzzle loader handguns and long arms, by these bushranger historical accounts were not used very effectively. Either because of fear in a shoot out, lack of experienceability, whatever. But interesting to read how the accounts of real bandit shootouts actually progressed.

One of these BP loaded brass cased Colts in the West would have been very special.

As would a Webley in Africa, India or elsewhere in the Empire.

Hell in some places the opposition still used spears, swords, and arrows against one.

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John aka NitroX

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lancaster
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: NitroX]
      #356559 - 05/09/21 01:58 AM

Not Kidding Around! Bonhams Gets $6 Million For Billy The Kid Death Gun, Sets Firearm Record

Published: August 31, 2021



LOS ANGELES — Lively bidding was seen on the phone, online and in the sale room on August 27, as Bonhams sold the gun Pat Garrett used to kill Billy the Kid for $6,030,313, a world auction record for any firearm. It was estimated at $2-3 million. The firearm was the top lot in the single-owner sale, “The Early West: The Collection of Jim and Theresa Earle,” which achieved a total of $12,387,124, selling 92 percent by lot and 99 percent by value.

The gun, a Colt single-action revolver owned by Sheriff Pat Garrett was used to kill Billy the Kid on July 14, 1881, at Pete Maxwell’s Ranch. It stands as a relic of one of the most important and well-known stories of the Wild West. Now part of the American mythology, Garrett’s friendship with the Kid, their mutual respect, and his subsequent hunt, capture, escape and death have become the stuff of legend.

Catherine Williamson, Bonhams’ director of Books & Manuscripts, said: “This sale was a tribute to Jim and Theresa Earle, and it was a tremendous privilege to bring their historic Western collection to auction. The top lot, Pat Garrett’s gun that killed Billy the Kid, attracted attention from all around the world and lead to a world auction record for a firearm. This momentum continued and we saw determined bidding from clients that drove the sale as one of the most valuable private collections of Western memorabilia offered at auction.”

Additional highlights from the Earle Collection included the double-barrel shotgun taken from Deputy Bob Olinger by Billy the Kid and used to kill Olinger ($978,313); a Colt single-action army revolver used by John Selman to shoot John Wesley Hardin ($858,313); the Smith & Wesson double-action “frontier” revolver carried by John Wesley Hardin when he was killed by John Selman ($625,313); and a Springfield trapdoor rifle that had belonged to Wild Bill Hickok ($475,313).

For information, www.bonhams.com.
https://www.antiquesandthearts.com/not-k...firearm-record/


.





--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Rockdoc
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: lancaster]
      #356583 - 05/09/21 03:47 PM

What a great find!

If only our handgun laws were different here.


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Ripp
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: Rockdoc]
      #356991 - 24/09/21 03:42 AM

Interesting article on the Colt 1873 history...

https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/...e0m_7Kmuwqb_pBI

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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: Ripp]
      #356998 - 24/09/21 04:49 AM

I think I can hear Dan's truck driving to Bozeman.

Those Colt Model 1873 in 44 special's would be special indeed.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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93x64mm
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Re: It's Handgun Wednesday.. Couple of Colts [Re: Rockdoc]
      #357006 - 24/09/21 06:50 AM

Quote:

What a great find!

If only our handgun laws were different here.



Well put RocDoc!
Now to get lever guns in those calibres Ripp!


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