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BillfromOregon
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Reged: 27/10/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Sweetwater, by God Texas

9.3s and dangerous game
#35595 - 09/08/05 01:21 AM

Looking at the lower end of available double rifles, I see that Pedersoli (at about $2500) and Merkel (at about $3500) offer doubles in 9.3X74R. I have heard that the Merkels in particular can be very accurate. Question is, which countries allow the use of this caliber for cape buffalo? I know it is not quite up to the ballistics of the 9.3X62, which seems to be the legal minimum in some jurisdictions.

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pwm
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Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany

Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: BillfromOregon]
#35598 - 09/08/05 02:37 AM

it was spoken about this on a german hunting site some weeks ago. only tansania and south africa have this stupid ban now.

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA

Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: BillfromOregon]
#35618 - 09/08/05 12:25 PM

In reply to:

I see that Pedersoli (at about $2500) and Merkel (at about $3500) offer doubles in 9.3X74R.

Bill, I don't know where you can buy a NEW S/S Merkel chambered for 9.3X74R for any $3500 US! The cheapest I can find them is $7195 US. I have one, and it is a well made rifle with sel auto ejectors, cocking indicators, and Dimi-bloc (Chopper Lump, hammerforged barrels)

You might get an O/U double for the $3500 US, but not a side be side! The 9.3X74R is the equil of the 9.3X62 in factory ammo, and mine is very accurate! 9.3X74R is a fine round that kills all out of proportion to it's numbers would make you think!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Tom_Bigbore
.224 member

Reged: 16/01/04
Posts: 44
Loc: Germany

Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: DUGABOY1]
#35628 - 09/08/05 09:28 PM

Hi,
Modell 140 has a german listprice starting at 3379 EURO. With a bit of negociation you are at 3200 EURO or less (~3900.00 US$ ).
Don´t know how much it is to import into the US.

Tom

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BillfromOregon
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Reged: 27/10/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Sweetwater, by God Texas

Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: Tom_Bigbore]
#35645 - 10/08/05 06:07 AM

Mac:
I got the price of $3500 for a Merkel 140 from the Hermann's Guns site in the double rifle retailer links at the bottom of nitro forums. I don't know anything about these folks, but no matter, as even $3500 is currently well out of my ballpark. Still, a chance to dream ...
And although I hate to bring up the sore subject of the Baikal/Spartans, I see Cats has tested one over at AR in .30-06 and found it very functionally accurate. So maybe we'll eventually see a double in a useful African caliber (9.3X 74, not .45-70) for under $1,000, even if just used on paper buffalo.

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shatter
.224 member

Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 41
Loc: Germany

Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: BillfromOregon]
#35669 - 10/08/05 10:33 PM

Take a look here: egun. It's a German gun auction site.

Doppelbüchse = s/s double rifle
Bockbüche or Bockdoppelbüchse = o/u double rifle

The offers change daily. Some will mail internationally.

Joachim

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BillfromOregon
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Reged: 27/10/04
Posts: 254
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Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: shatter]
#35673 - 11/08/05 01:01 AM

Shatter: Vielen Dank!

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luv2safari
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Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1408
Loc: United States

Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: BillfromOregon]
#35704 - 11/08/05 12:56 PM

Bill,

I just yesterday emailed Remington with that same suggestion. I mentioned that the 9,3X74R is a far better caliber for almost anything, than is the 45/70. I'll probably get some flack here for saying this, but it is my opinion of the two after using both.

I can't imagine why Remington had these two chamberings, only, when there is a growing demand for 9,3s?? After their 8MM Mag fiasco they can't seem to think of anything metric except for 7MM... I told them to call the 9,3X74R a "366 Remington Express". Maybe the suits at Remington will wake up some day and realize that this now a worldwide hunter's market...not one just for Bubbah and the Good'OL Boys...

We need to initiate a write-in campaign for the 9,3!

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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Ndumo
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Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Namibia

Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: pwm]
#35718 - 11/08/05 04:56 PM

The only province (out of 9) in South Africa that does not allow 9.3mm, is Natal. Even some of the nature conservation authorities have it wrongly that .375 is minimum in the old Transvaal. (Minimum .358, but never very widely known in old Transvaal) Freestate does not have a minimum, can legally hunt with a .22 rimfire. However, most outfitters in SA will advise clients to hunt with .375 and bigger, maybe out of ignorance, or maybe for safety sake. I personally believe that the 9.3's (x64, x62, x74) are all very good calibers for hunting buffalo and lion, if very good bullets are used. (I am referring to sport hunting, backed up by PH with larger rifle handy in case of sticky situation.) Marinal for elephant, rhino, and hippo (on land), but so is a .375Whatever.

--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416

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Rick_R
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Reged: 03/07/03
Posts: 117
Loc: WV, USA

Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: luv2safari]
#35721 - 11/08/05 10:48 PM

Luv2safari wrote:
"I told them to call the 9,3X74R a "366 Remington Express". Maybe the suits at Remington will wake up some day and realize that this now a worldwide hunter's market...not one just for Bubbah and the Good'OL Boys..."

Then hopefully they'd make brass with that headstamp so you could get the rifle into countries that are particular about you only bringing gun/ammo combo's that match.

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grandveneur
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Posts: 1356
Loc: France / Germany

Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: Rick_R]
#348292 - 22/12/20 04:55 AM

I shot three buffalos with the cartridge 9,3x74R in South East Asia , but the asian buffaloes are buffalo too.

With a good shot placement , the cartridges caliber 9,3mm kills without any problems , but I still consider this caliber to be borderline. You can't afford to make mistakes. Larger caliber have much more reserve when something goes wrong.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: grandveneur]
#348296 - 22/12/20 08:58 AM

There are Hunting Cartridges and then there are Stopping Cartridges.
Some use the latter for the former's purpose, some don't.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3592
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: DarylS]
#348299 - 22/12/20 09:30 AM

Not sure when the Woodleigh Hydro bullets were inroduced, may not have existed back in '05 when this thread started, but they certainly changed the game for the 9.3 calibre.

Even in a Mauser where seating depth on a full charge in the 9.3x62 may preclude feeding, a Hydro in the chamber for the first shot definitely represents a paradigm shift on dangerous game.

Good writeup on the Woodleigh Hydro bullets here for those (very few!) unfamiliar.

Currently building a 9.3x62 on a 1915 Oberndorf action, with Australia's Northern Territory buffalo the intended target, so keenly interested in this topic atm.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA

Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: Marrakai]
#348312 - 22/12/20 03:44 PM

Quote:

Not sure when the Woodleigh Hydro bullets were inroduced, may not have existed back in '05 when this thread started, but they certainly changed the game for the 9.3 calibre.

Even in a Mauser where seating depth on a full charge in the 9.3x62 may preclude feeding, a Hydro in the chamber for the first shot definitely represents a paradigm shift on dangerous game.

Good writeup on the Woodleigh Hydro bullets here for those (very few!) unfamiliar.

Currently building a 9.3x62 on a 1915 Oberndorf action, with Australia's Northern Territory buffalo the intended target, so keenly interested in this topic atm.

Good article..

I agree totally.. Bullets make a huge difference in the effectiveness of the caliber.
Have never used Woodleigh bullets but have used Fed Trophy Bonded Bear Claws out of a .375H&H in Cameroon.. worked very well.. have used Swifts in the other African hunts with excellent results..have tried other bullets, but at this point will not move from what I know works..

Are these hard to get at the moment with all the shortages??

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39885
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Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: Ripp]
#348321 - 22/12/20 10:46 PM

Used my 9.3x74R double rifle on a variety and game. Fourteen water buffalo. All with a 286 gr Woodleigh Weldcore SP. Worked fine. Some use of the 286 gr Woodleigh FMJ.

I have not shot any big bulla with it though.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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grandveneur
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Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: Ripp]
#348322 - 22/12/20 10:56 PM

That's right , the bullets play a role when it comes to the choice of cartridges for hunting Big Game and DG.

Where we initially swore on caliber 458 and above , cartridges caliber .416 can now be seen as a good choice , in all cases for a client. The 350gr and 380gr bullets also represent an improvement when using the cartridge 375 H&H Magnum for hunting big game.

Because of my age I stay true to the caliber 458 and will no longer deviate from it.

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NitroX
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Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: NitroX]
#348323 - 22/12/20 11:00 PM

Woodleigh Hydro Bullets

H9.3A 9.3 232 20 .366" 1.141
H9.3 9.3 286 20 .366" 1.376
H375A 375 WIN 235 20 .375" 1.100
H375 375 300 20 .375" 1.390

https://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/bullet-lists/hydrostatically-stabilised

Weldcores and FMJs

47D 9.3 Cal .366" 232gr PP SN 50 .246 .307 2000-2700 1.160
47A 250gr RN SN 50 .267 .281 2000-2400 1.083
47C 250gr PP SN 50 .267 .381 2000-2700 1.210
47 286gr RN SN 50 .305 .321 2000-2400 1.209
47B 286gr PP SN 50 .305 .396 2000-2600 1.323
48 286gr FMJ 50 .305 .305 1.273
49 320gr RN SN 50 .341 .359 2000-2200 1.323
49A 320gr PP SN 50 .341 .457 2000-2600 1.441
50 320gr FMJ 50 .341 .341 1.412
42A 375 Mag .375" 235gr PP SN 50 .239 .310 1900-2800 1.013
42 270gr RN SN 50 .274 .250 1900-2400 1.088
43A 270gr PP SN 50 .274 .370 1900-2700 1.130
44HD HEAVY DUTY 300gr RN SN 50 .305 .277 1900-2550 1.218 coloured black for ID
44 300gr RN SN 50 .305 .277 1900-2400 1.184
45A 300gr PP SN 50 .305 .380 1900-2600 1.232
46 300gr FMJ 50 .305 .275 1.253
46B DISCONTINUED 350gr RN SN 50 .356 .321 1900-2400 1.351 INFO
46BHD HEAVY DUTY 350gr RN SN 50 .356 .323 1900-2500 1.378 coloured black for ID
46C 350gr PP SN 50 .356 .400 1900-2500 1.408
46D 350gr FMJ 50 .356 .307 1.447

https://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/bullet-lists/traditional/338-375-list

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39885
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Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: NitroX]
#348325 - 22/12/20 11:07 PM

Some good lighter bullet selections:

Woodleigh Hydro Bullets
H9.3A 9.3 232 20 .366" 1.141
H375A 375 WIN 235 20 .375" 1.100

Weldcores and FMJs
47D 9.3 Cal .366" 232gr PP SN 50 .246 .307 2000-2700 1.160
42A 375 Mag .375" 235gr PP SN 50 .239 .310 1900-2800 1.013

And it looks like Woodleigh has filled out the heavier selections as well, with a RN PP and FMJ options:

49 320gr RN SN 50 .341 .359 2000-2200 1.323
49A 320gr PP SN 50 .341 .457 2000-2600 1.441
50 320gr FMJ 50 .341 .341 1.412

46BHD HEAVY DUTY 350gr RN SN 50 .356 .323 1900-2500 1.378 coloured black for ID
46C 350gr PP SN 50 .356 .400 1900-2500 1.408
46D 350gr FMJ 50 .356 .307 1.447

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4200
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: Marrakai]
#348327 - 22/12/20 11:42 PM

Quote:

Not sure when the Woodleigh Hydro bullets were inroduced, may not have existed back in '05 when this thread started, but they certainly changed the game for the 9.3 calibre.

Even in a Mauser where seating depth on a full charge in the 9.3x62 may preclude feeding, a Hydro in the chamber for the first shot definitely represents a paradigm shift on dangerous game.

Good writeup on the Woodleigh Hydro bullets here for those (very few!) unfamiliar.

Currently building a 9.3x62 on a 1915 Oberndorf action, with Australia's Northern Territory buffalo the intended target, so keenly interested in this topic atm.

Great article Marrakai!
Good to see you're finally coming around to the 'metric' side of things!
Sounds like it will be a nice rig, the Oberndorf's are a great base to start a custom job!
Only problem mate is your case is 2mm short

Cheers
93x64mm

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szihn
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Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: 93x64mm]
#348419 - 24/12/20 12:37 PM

Dangerous game can be many different animals. And no animal is dangerous to man until it can touch that man. So a Grizzly at 300 yards across a gully is not any big deal, but one at 30 yards in thick brush is a VERY different circumstance. So it goes...............

For me, I would LOVE to have a double in that caliber and if I did I would hunt anything with it.

And would feel perfectly well armed for backing up a client in hunts for bears, bore, or any big cats. It may not be my 1st choice as a back-up man for buff or elephant, but in a cool hand I am sure it would do.

Edited by szihn (24/12/20 12:40 PM)

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3592
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: szihn]
#348429 - 24/12/20 11:30 PM

Quote:

Only problem mate is your case is 2mm short

I hope everyone here appreciates my studiously ignoring 9.3x64's contention that size does matter!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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ruffcountry
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Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: luv2safari]
#348432 - 25/12/20 02:00 AM

Quote:

Bill,

I just yesterday emailed Remington with that same suggestion.

... I told them to call the 9,3X74R a "366 Remington Express". Maybe the suits at Remington will wake up some day and realize that this now a worldwide hunter's market...not one just for Bubbah and the Good'OL Boys...

sometimes when i mention that i have a 9.3 x74r people look at me funny and say whats that , i then say well if it was a british born caliber it would be a .366 magnum express .Invariably they will then nod knowingly .

--------------------
Double Rifle Shooters Society

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DarylS
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Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: ruffcountry]
#348438 - 25/12/20 04:05 AM

Some time ago, I had a conversation with Phil Schoomaker on rifle calibres. At the time, Phil was still packing
his old .458 and seems to me, so was his son. What his daughter packed, I do not know, but we both agreed
that the 9.3x62 would do just fine.

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4200
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: Marrakai]
#348444 - 25/12/20 07:59 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Only problem mate is your case is 2mm short

I hope everyone here appreciates my studiously ignoring 9.3x64's contention that size does matter!

Oh I knew I'd get a nibble there & yes it does matey!

Wouldn't it be good if this was under the Christmas tree this year - hopefully soon champion.
Merry Christmas
93x64mm

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Postman
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Posts: 846
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Re: 9.3s and dangerous game [Re: 93x64mm]
#348513 - 27/12/20 10:38 AM

I have a Merkel 9.3x74r SxS and I do love it very much! It regulates beautifully.

Would I hunt DG with it?

Nope.

Why not one might ask?

As a hunter that has to pay almost a year’s take home pay (after tax), to hunt African DG, I do NOT wish to be marginally equipped. I want the horsepower to “ take the shot”, whatever the angle or shot presentation, particularly when one may only get a single opportunity during a 10 day hunt. Do I think the 9.3x74r will take a cape buffalo? Yes, of course, but on a perfect textbook broadside shot. Not on a “quartering to” shot that is all too often the presentation one gets with cape buffalo..... there is just waaay too much brisket, bone, gristle and assorted factors that would make me hold the shot if equipped with a 9.3x74r. If I lived in Africa or had the opportunity to hunt at a much greater frequency than I can currently afford, just maybe I’d hunt with the 9.3x74r, where I could be much more liberal with passing up shots.

I just do not believe it is a good choice for most DG hunters. I do believe it is a fantastic cartridge. I hunt whitetail deer and caribou with it to great effect and it damages less meat than a smaller faster cartridge. In Europe, it would be an absolute gem if hunting wild boar.

If one is paying outrageous and barely affordable fees for a DG hunt, one might well consider a caliber starting at .416 and go up from there. Leave the science experiments at home and equip ones self with a more suitable tool for the job. ‘tis only my opinion and if others feel differently, that’s ok too. I suppose one’s context and conditions will have much to do with one’s opinion or approach.

Edited by Postman (27/12/20 10:49 AM)

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