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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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moorjaeger
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Reged: 13/09/11
Posts: 5
Loc: Germany
10,75x68 Mauser
      #337324 - 02/02/20 08:03 PM

Good morning,
is anybody else using the 423 Mauser ? What Bullets do you use for hunting. Thank you for your help.


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lancaster
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Re: 10,75x68 Mauser [Re: moorjaeger]
      #337336 - 03/02/20 02:50 AM

well , I have one but it guarded the safe at the moment

is there anything beside of woodleigh and degol ( which seems to be te same in quality)
for target shooting I resize 300 grains .429 sierra

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3517
Loc: Colorado
Re: 10,75x68 Mauser [Re: lancaster]
      #337341 - 03/02/20 03:29 AM

I suppose Hawk will make bullets for you and you could load for the 400gr 404 bullets but I haven't done that.
I'm still shooting my projectiles made from 40S&W brass, which I love doing, but have no reports on game.
I'm sure they would take deer without issue.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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lancaster
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Re: 10,75x68 Mauser [Re: Huvius]
      #337357 - 03/02/20 06:55 AM

was thinking about 40 S&W brass before but nobody shoot it here ( since it exist I found only ONE case in a trash can on the range). buy this brass to make bullets makes no sence because you get 300 grains bullets/44 mag for this money.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
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Re: 10,75x68 Mauser [Re: lancaster]
      #337377 - 03/02/20 04:14 PM

The Woodleigh 347gr .423" soft nose bullet is made for the 10.75 x 68 and should be available in Europe. RWS uses Woodleigh bullets in their big game ammunition.

I have a small supply of the original RWS 347gr soft point bullets used in the 10.75 x 68. They worked well on one or two red deer and feral goats when I used them in my 404 Jeffery.

There are probably a few of these bullets still floating around in Germany.


RWS 347gr SP - not for sale!!



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grandveneur
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Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1278
Loc: France / Germany
Re: 10,75x68 Mauser [Re: lancaster]
      #348703 - 31/12/20 09:40 PM

I shot three buffalo with this cartridge , two with the classic 22,5g FMJ bullet from RWS and one with the 347gr FMJ bullet from Woodleigh.

It worked , but you cannot make any mistakes. There is a lack of depth penetration of the bullets.

The 400gr bullets cannot be brought to an acceptable velocity and are therefore not suitable for the cartridge 10,75x68.

We have better cartridges for hunting big game available nowadays , however this cartridge works well on other medium to heavy game at not too long range.

Edited by grandveneur (31/12/20 09:44 PM)


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ColoradoMatt1
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Reged: 01/01/14
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Re: 10,75x68 Mauser [Re: grandveneur]
      #352182 - 09/04/21 07:28 AM

Quote:

I shot three buffalo with this cartridge , two with the classic 22,5g FMJ bullet from RWS and one with the 347gr FMJ bullet from Woodleigh.

It worked , but you cannot make any mistakes. There is a lack of depth penetration of the bullets.

The 400gr bullets cannot be brought to an acceptable velocity and are therefore not suitable for the cartridge 10,75x68.





Original Oberndorf Mauser rifles, and perhaps other old commercial offerings, have an 8x57 length magazine, which limits the handloader with respect to powder capacity. Due to the fact that this round came out in 1908, pressures are also very, very low (something like 38,000psi). When loaded to OAL similar to, let’s say the 458 Win, 416 Taylor, and 416 Ruger, plus loading to 60,000psi (30-06 pressure) 400 Nitro Express performance can be easily exceeded. Such loads have been used on Big Five critters many times by the likes of Ray Atkinson and others. There certainly are better DG rounds out there, and taking the 10.75x68 to modern specs as I’ve described virtually makes for an entirely different round. However, it can, and has, been done.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 10,75x68 Mauser [Re: ColoradoMatt1]
      #352206 - 09/04/21 03:00 PM

Quote:

Such loads have been used on Big Five critters many times by the likes of Ray Atkinson and




"Ol Ray", did he use it in the field or just on his usual BS fictional braggy posts?

Did he ever post any pictures?

Was it hos 105th buffalo? Or his fifth buffalo?

Lets stick to reputable sources.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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grandveneur
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Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1278
Loc: France / Germany
Re: 10,75x68 Mauser [Re: NitroX]
      #352207 - 09/04/21 03:21 PM

There is always a lot of discussion about the cartridge 10,75x68, but nobody has shot any big game with it.

I recommend doing it as I did, shot a few buffaloes with it and then it is easier to discuss factual than theoretically what this cartridge could possibly do and not to have to quote various authors who do not always tell the truth. There is nothing like personal experience.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 10,75x68 Mauser [Re: grandveneur]
      #352209 - 09/04/21 03:48 PM

Quote:

There is nothing like personal experience.






I remember a discussion by the x-spurts like ol'Ray, how the .450/400 was a dead set DG killer, and it is respectable of course. And in another thread how the .416 Chatfield-Taylor was under powered ... when I pointed out the two threads and comments in both and the two cartridges had very similar ballistics, no doubt I made lots of "net-spurt" friends again.

I believe some Aussies have used the 10.75x68 in the Top End for respectable results.

I think the main issue with the cartridge is whether the projectile is soft, as the old ammo bullet was and gave it a bad reputation. A reasonably constructed 347 gr RNSP and FMJ should function well enough in theory. I would {i]think the Woodleoghs are constructed for water buffalo? Yes or no?

A 9.3x74R with 286 gr bullets with such a bullet as the Woodleigh Weldcore functions adequately on water buffalo. So in theory I can't see why a 10.75x68 with a 347 gr projectile at reasonable velocity say 2100 plus fps wouldn't perform as well, if the bullet is made well enough to open but not too soft was well.

Never used a 10.75x68 so just theoretical comments.

One day I will shoot some 347 grainers in my .404 and see how they perform. The Woodleighs have a slightly different calibre diameter but can't see that is an issue except perhaps accuracy? In theory should be too soft at a 404's higher velocity. Shouldn't be an issue say on feral pigs or other medium game.

PS Thanks for your comments on your experience with the catridge actually hunting with it.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (09/04/21 04:05 PM)


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grandveneur
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Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1278
Loc: France / Germany
Re: 10,75x68 Mauser [Re: NitroX]
      #352211 - 09/04/21 04:16 PM

I have shot buffaloes in Africa and southeast Asia with various cartridges caliber 9.3mm to .510 and therefore I believe that I can differentiate a little what works well and what could possibly cause problems.

Nowadays we have so many good cartridges available for DG hunting so that we are not forced to fall back on cartridges like the 10,75x68 that were already replacement solutions in the past because nothing better was available or could be bought.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 10,75x68 Mauser [Re: grandveneur]
      #352214 - 09/04/21 04:51 PM

Soft bullets caused the bad vintage reputation not its ballistics of the 10.75x68.

All those "modern choices", who cares about them? Especially here on NE. Let the newbie on his first and one only ever cape buffalo safari, before selling the rifle when he gets home again, choose all those. "new fangled modern creations".

By your logic, no one would use a 9.3x74R, a 9.3x62, a .318 WR. a .360. and .338, a 8x68S, and numerous other choices which killed excellently a hundred years ago and still kill as well today.

Lesser powered choices always need to have this consideration in mind when taking a shot.

I think using vintage rifles with vintage cartridge chamberings is a joy and an experience to treasure.

A friend used his "new" (to him) Mannlicher-Schoenauer 6.5x54mm to shoot two big water buffalo bulls well. He choose his shots carefully.

A ".900 Whopper" is not needed for everything or even anytime.

But everyone to their own choices.

But again thanks for your comments on your experience with the 10.75x68.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1108
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: 10,75x68 Mauser [Re: NitroX]
      #352228 - 10/04/21 10:48 AM

In all the observations about bullet softness and ability to penetrate or lack of it, nobody has cottoned on to the fact, or at least mentioned it, that in all calibres the long heavy bullet provides stability and penetration rather than a short for calibre lighter bullet. This is the very reason why the smaller 7x57 nd 6.5x54 cartridges proved quite capable of racking up good dangerous game kills in the hands of a shooter who could place the bullets to do the damage. Bell being perhaps the most famous but other hunters of his era in Africa also using these calibres for big but less dangerous game. The 9.3 and 375 cartridges also built their reputation on the long heavy bullets they used. All these cartridges operated at moderate velocities.
Taking a 350gr .423" bullet, no matter how strongly constructed or how fast it is driven, is not the key to a reliable and consistent big game killer.

There is a reason why the 375H&H, 404 Jeffery, 416 Rigby and 425 Westley Richards earned such magnificent reputations, and for the first two such common and widespread use, as large dangerous game killers in Africa. It was the long heavy bullets, irrespective of construction and velocity, that all these cartridges had in common that made their reputation, not short stubby varieties.


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ColoradoMatt1
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Re: 10,75x68 Mauser [Re: NitroX]
      #352231 - 10/04/21 11:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Such loads have been used on Big Five critters many times by the likes of Ray Atkinson and




"Ol Ray", did he use it in the field or just on his usual BS fictional braggy posts?

Did he ever post any pictures?

Was it hos 105th buffalo? Or his fifth buffalo?

Lets stick to reputable sources.




I don’t really know Ray, although I have conversed with him on the net a few times, and I bought a few hundred .423” A-Square, Barnes, and Woodleigh bullets from him after he stopped shooting 404 Jeffs (He is now in his mid 80’s.). I see no reason to doubt his appraisal of the 10.75x68. The Griffin and Howe Mauser that he once owned had a 3.4” magazine, so 400 grain bullets could be seated way out there.

A few years ago, I had a fellow compare the the 416 Taylor and the 10.75x68 using quickload software. When one loads both cartridges to the same 3.34” OAL with similarly constructed 400 grain bullets, the 10.75 actually holds a few grains more powder than the 416 Taylor. While I would choose to not run the 10.75 up to the 416 Taylor’s magnum pressure, I would attempt loading to 60k psi (‘06 pressure). Quickload predicted that with a few powders (I recall CFE 223 was one) 2300fps is possible. That matches the old 60 grain cordite load in the 404 Jeff.


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grandveneur
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Re: 10,75x68 Mauser [Re: eagle27]
      #352232 - 10/04/21 05:48 PM

Quote:

In all the observations about bullet softness and ability to penetrate or lack of it, nobody has cottoned on to the fact, or at least mentioned it, that in all calibres the long heavy bullet provides stability and penetration rather than a short for calibre lighter bullet. This is the very reason why the smaller 7x57 nd 6.5x54 cartridges proved quite capable of racking up good dangerous game kills in the hands of a shooter who could place the bullets to do the damage. Bell being perhaps the most famous but other hunters of his era in Africa also using these calibres for big but less dangerous game. The 9.3 and 375 cartridges also built their reputation on the long heavy bullets they used. All these cartridges operated at moderate velocities.
Taking a 350gr .423" bullet, no matter how strongly constructed or how fast it is driven, is not the key to a reliable and consistent big game killer.

There is a reason why the 375H&H, 404 Jeffery, 416 Rigby and 425 Westley Richards earned such magnificent reputations, and for the first two such common and widespread use, as large dangerous game killers in Africa. It was the long heavy bullets, irrespective of construction and velocity, that all these cartridges had in common that made their reputation, not short stubby varieties.




I have to agree.

If I had the choice between the cartridge 10,75x68 and the cartridge 375 H&H Magnum, I would choose the latter and with a long and heavy bullet. I also regulated my MS rifle caliber 9,3x64 with a 320g bullet just in case, but it's also not my first choice for hunting DG.

Concerning the cartridge 10,75x68, what is being said about modern bullets and various powder charges that can improve the performance of this cartridge is all theory. You cannot shot a buffalo or a elephant with Quick-load or any other computer program.

Edited by grandveneur (10/04/21 05:56 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: 10,75x68 Mauser [Re: grandveneur]
      #352239 - 10/04/21 08:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

In all the observations about bullet softness and ability to penetrate or lack of it, nobody has cottoned on to the fact, or at least mentioned it, that in all calibres the long heavy bullet provides stability and penetration rather than a short for calibre lighter bullet. This is the very reason why the smaller 7x57 nd 6.5x54 cartridges proved quite capable of racking up good dangerous game kills in the hands of a shooter who could place the bullets to do the damage. Bell being perhaps the most famous but other hunters of his era in Africa also using these calibres for big but less dangerous game. The 9.3 and 375 cartridges also built their reputation on the long heavy bullets they used. All these cartridges operated at moderate velocities.
Taking a 350gr .423" bullet, no matter how strongly constructed or how fast it is driven, is not the key to a reliable and consistent big game killer.

There is a reason why the 375H&H, 404 Jeffery, 416 Rigby and 425 Westley Richards earned such magnificent reputations, and for the first two such common and widespread use, as large dangerous game killers in Africa. It was the long heavy bullets, irrespective of construction and velocity, that all these cartridges had in common that made their reputation, not short stubby varieties.




I have to agree.

If I had the choice between the cartridge 10,75x68 and the cartridge 375 H&H Magnum, I would choose the latter and with a long and heavy bullet. I also regulated my MS rifle caliber 9,3x64 with a 320g bullet just in case, but it's also not my first choice for hunting DG.

Concerning the cartridge 10,75x68, what is being said about modern bullets and various powder charges that can improve the performance of this cartridge is all theory. You cannot shot a buffalo or a elephant with Quick-load or any other computer program.




All true except for the last sentence.

What kills big animals. Penetration and calibre width. Sectional density and adequate velocity is the key to penetration and related of course to bullet weight to the calibre size. The width of the wound channel is the other factor.

And yes. the reason the 7x57 with 175 solids was a killer, the .318 WR with 250 gr solids killed many thousands of buffalo as did the 8x60's/8x57s.

I don't know if 320 gr 9.3's and 350 gr .375's were available back in the day? The usual was the 300 gr for the .375. ut a 287 gr 9.3, 300 gr .375 and 400 gr .416/423/408/411 etc all have adequate sectional density.

The last paragraph, no quick load can not kill a buffalo but the 10.75x68 can and has killed water buffalos. Keeping claiming otherwise is silly. Aussie owners of 10.75x68 have used them on water buffalo. Buffalo are not armour plated. I would be willing to use a 8x68S, a .300 Magnum, a .318 WR, a .350, .360, 9.3mm, .375 NE and many many other a choice for buffalo. With suitable bullet and if legal. They haven't become invinceable a hundred years later. Indeed a hell of a lot of Aussies just use their deer medium game rifles to shoot a water buffalo, a .308 or .30-06.

BUT having big bores I DO CHOOSE to use them isntead. Why not? They are fun. And if the beastie decides once every ten or twenty buff to li;; you instead, they are better insurance. My next buffalos will hopefully be taken with the 10-bore and the .404.

Hype and marketing MS also does not kill a buffalo. Their "invinceability" sells expensive hunts. But a good bullet in the right place does kill very well.

Anyway, they are good fun to hunt, and more fun when or if they unfortunately do not drop instantly and excess fun when the run down a hill towards you.

***

I have only shot two elephant, both with the .450 NE and 480 gr solids. Both were brain shot with the first shot. Other insurance shots were taken afterwards though.

I do prefer something with more grunt with elephant. If I had one I would choose a .500 NE or .577 NE. Knocking one over with a less than perfect brain shot may be advanteguous.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: 10,75x68 Mauser [Re: grandveneur]
      #352247 - 10/04/21 09:42 PM

Quote:

[
If I had the choice between the cartridge 10,75x68 and the cartridge 375 H&H Magnum, I would choose the latter and with a long and heavy bullet. I also regulated my MS rifle caliber 9,3x64 with a 320g bullet just in case, but it's also not my first choice for hunting DG.




The famous elephant and hunter in Mozambique Harry manners made that choice as well. Back "in the day", started off with a 10.75x68 but found it inadequate. With the choice of the projectiles of the day, it simply was not suitable. It had a bad reputation as a result. Then he switched to a .375 H&H Magnum, and shot "thousands" of buffalo and a great many elephant. With the .375 H&H Mag and 300 gr solids and SPs.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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grandveneur
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Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1278
Loc: France / Germany
Re: 10,75x68 Mauser [Re: NitroX]
      #379882 - 07/10/23 04:27 AM

Has anyone in the meantime shot big game with this cartridge and a so-called modern highly effective load ?

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