Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: To 577 or not?

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

Pages: 1
EDELWEISS
.333 member


Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 488
Loc: Gettysburg
To 577 or not?
      #352116 - 08/04/21 05:55 AM

Ive got a really nice Martini action. I took it to a gunsmith to confirm it was worthy of building on. My original plan had been a 303. I even went so far as to have the smith order a 24" octagonal barrel. I planned a simple but elegant build BUT then I began scheming about other builds, while I waited for the Martini to be finished.

When I checked in with the smith, he said that he had a 577 barrel blank that he had been thinking about building for himself but thought about my Martini. He offered to buy the action from me or trade me the 577 barrel for the 303 barrel. We are gonna meet tomorrow to decide what goes where.

Ive got a collection of Martinis (and a Gahendra) in 577/450 and a few in 303. Some are full length and a couple Carbines. Ive also got a pair of "sporter" guns in 577/450 and 303, that look like they were built as a set. So I dont "need" another Martini but I really like them.

Im thinking that I really like to add a 577 BPE in either 2 3/4" or 3 inch. I suppose I might take it back to Africa; but more likely Id use it for Wild Boar and maybe the occasional Whitetails. Yeah its way more than I need for domestic game and their are better more modern cartridges butttttt I like it.

Sooooo if I (we) go the 577 route, Ill need brass and dies. Brass I think Ive got covered; but I dont have a clue where to look for a reamer and dies/cartridge holder or who would make them If I have to have them made.

This will be a strictly a Black Powder (maybe substitute) proposition. Id like to go 3 inches but I could be happy with 2 3/4 Inches. Im not sure how long the action will accommodate.

Help

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Daryl_S
.600 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 22324
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #352118 - 08/04/21 06:17 AM

Pls don't use substitute Black Powders. It is so easy to get the real thing in the States, it would be a shame to jeopardize the bore using fake perchlorate powders.
A .577 would be fun to play with.
I would do it I would make the trade in a heart-beat.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
93x64mm
.400 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 2401
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: Daryl_S]
      #352123 - 08/04/21 06:39 AM

Or you could go the 577/500 No2 route?
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....SID=#Post258697


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
85lc
.300 member


Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 215
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: 93x64mm]
      #352128 - 08/04/21 07:03 AM

Will a 577 BPE (2 3/4" shell) fit into the action? I ask because I once had a large Greener martini action. With a barrel in place, it would not accept a 3" 577 shell. That is, the 577 shell was too long.

One option was to do a 577 Snider and the second option was to do a 577/500. Either one would be a fun gun.

Another option would be to buy a Greener shotgun action which is large enough for a 577 BPE.

I wound up selling the action, sights, etc to a friend after my gunsmith friend retired. I had planned on working with my gunsmith friend and using his equipment to build this rifle.

--------------------
RB


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EDELWEISS
.333 member


Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 488
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: 85lc]
      #352131 - 08/04/21 09:06 AM

Im not sure what length will work. We're gonna try to figure that out tomorrow.

I looked at 577/500 but since the barrel we have is 577, using a necked cartridge to 500, wont work without a new barrel.

I suppose 577 Snider would be OK; but it seems small next to 577BPE....

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4570
Loc: Nevada
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #352133 - 08/04/21 09:39 AM

577 Snider is a good handgun cartridge.
I wouldn't build a rifle around it.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EDELWEISS
.333 member


Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 488
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: tinker]
      #352135 - 08/04/21 10:00 AM

Quote:

577 Snider is a good handgun cartridge.
I wouldn't build a rifle around it.




THANKS for saying what I was thinking.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
3DogMike
.375 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 717
Loc: Colorado USA
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #352142 - 08/04/21 12:32 PM

.577 2 1/2” Express (yes, it did exist, was 1870’s intermediary between the Snider and the 2 3/4” and 3”).
Will fit a Martini, and 24ga Magtec bass just needs a trip into a .577 sizing die. Much easier and less expensive than fooling with .577 3” brass and having to cut to 2 3/4 or 2 1/2 to weasel into a Martini.
110-120 grains of black and 460-520 grain bullet.

--------------------
“On the Western Slope of Colorado, USA"
&
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 2916
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: 3DogMike]
      #352146 - 08/04/21 04:20 PM

The .577 x 2 3/4 Light Nitro will fit in both the MH and the GP actions IIRC.
There is a thread on these forums somewhere (years ago) discussing this chambering in the Martini, in which I posted a photo of the MH and GP actions side-by-side, and a few pics of the cartridge being chambered.
Will do a search for that old thread when I get a few moments spare!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EDELWEISS
.333 member


Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 488
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: Marrakai]
      #352163 - 09/04/21 12:14 AM

OK! 577 2 3/4 is sounding better and better

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
vykkagur
.300 member


Reged: 28/11/19
Posts: 214
Loc: Canada
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: Marrakai]
      #352167 - 09/04/21 01:37 AM

Quote:

The .577 x 2 3/4 Light Nitro will fit in both the MH and the GP actions IIRC.
There is a thread on these forums somewhere (years ago) discussing this chambering in the Martini, in which I posted a photo of the MH and GP actions side-by-side, and a few pics of the cartridge being chambered.
Will do a search for that old thread when I get a few moments spare!





Allow me:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post102535


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2163
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: vykkagur]
      #352173 - 09/04/21 03:32 AM

Let me weigh in here.

Saying you have nice Martini action to build on is like saying you have a nice Winchester Lever action to build on.

Which Martini Action do you have?

Most common coming up in this discussion is a Greener shot gun action. Greener does not recommend building centerfire rifles on the shot gun action.

That being said I will confess to building number of centerfire guns on the shotgun action in the past. All my guns were built on the solid actions. There is a version with a split receiver. The bottom of the action is split right I front of the trigger guard. I believe this split is to facilitate take down.

I am also aware of a number of 45/70 being built on the Greener Shotgun action. These are probably okay as the chamber wall will be pretty thick. In a split action chambered in .577 I would be concerned about the thickness chamber walls over a split.

Some Martini actions may be able to be adjusted enough to accept a 577- 3" case. In the Greener shot gun the case is longer than the breech block. (At least on the two I have here). Loading an empty case into the breech results in the rim catching on the back of the knuckle and and mouth of the case is stopped by the back of the barrel.

The 2-3/4" case is accepted with the a deep seated bullet. I have a dummy case made up with a 650 gr. bullet.

There are other size Martini's that might work.
here are the ones I checked.

1. Sporting Martini on MK IV action short lever
2. Hollis Action-definitely
3. Westley Richards ZAR
4. Greener Sporting rifle action.
5. British Military MH action

Two other possibles. Both of the these guns are in .303 and the chambers were not big enough to gauge the .577.

1. Greener sporting rifle on Tranter pattern action
2. Holloway and Naughton sporting rifle on Bonehill sporting action.

These all most likely with take a 2-3/4 NE.

You may be able find a chopped up ZAR, they do show up once in a while. But a complete rifle is to valuable for this project.

British military Martini Henry. The volunteer patterns often only have maker name and can had fairly inexpensively. Especially the Afghan bring backs. There are some Mk II's that have faint markings. I have an action of one of these here right now.

I also checked these actions with an empty 3 inch case. This is doubtful. Maybe. The load position may be adjusted to work. Ask your gunsmith how he is going to do it, if he says he can. If he says would grind the loading trough in the top of the block out a bit, grab your gun and run. The breech block is the equivalent the locking lugs. You don't want to do anything to weaken it-like grinding the trough.

I have dies for CH4D. Moulds from CBE. The big issue I have is getting the 3 inch brass trimmed to 2-3/4".


The Greener shotgun action is difficult to assemble and reassemble and thus difficult to work with. I had a lever device at one time to work the block, but some time over the years it has walked. Most likely made into another project.

Couple that with brass trimming issue, my gun sits in the safe gathering dust. I need to finish the stock.

I do have a chambering reamer for the 2-3/4" version.

--------------------
DD, Ret.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EDELWEISS
.333 member


Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 488
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: DoubleD]
      #352188 - 09/04/21 08:40 AM

Quote:

Let me weigh in here.

Saying you have nice Martini action to build on is like saying you have a nice Winchester Lever action to build on.

Which Martini Action do you have?
..............
I do have a chambering reamer for the 2-3/4" version.




Actually I have a couple. One is a short lever (I think Mk IV), I dont have anymore details. The other is a Greener solid frame no safety lever. Thats the one we are considering using for the build.

I was originally gonna build it in 303 with an octagonal barrel but the straight tapper on the barrel (that I ordered) made it much to heavy for my liking. I should have gotten more consult before placing the order. I wanted an octagon but with more taper. Luckily the smith took a liking to it and we traded his 577 for my 303.

A 577 2 3/4 "Light" should be fine for my wants and intended uses. The barrel is a 26inch blank, its not chambered, but it does have a slight taper. Im thinking a single leaf express rear and a barrel band front sight with a folding ivory bead and a barrel mounted sling swivel. The current plan is to rust blue the barrel. Ill have find or make a handgurd to match the original stock, unless I can find new wood but I dont have a clue where to start looking.

I was originally thinking about three or more folding leaves for the rear sight ad being more "correct"; but Im seeing this as a close in gun and a single fixed leaf seems appropriate for that role.

577 2 3/4 is the goal now; but we are waiting to confirm reamer and die availability. Brass is available from Rocky Mountain Cartridge.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 2916
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #352195 - 09/04/21 10:20 AM

Quote:

577 2 3/4 is the goal now



I am assuming that link to the .577 Light Nitro chambering in my old post is still live, although I can't actually get to it on this security-paranoid hp laptop atm.

At the risk of "banging on" about what is perhaps my favourite large-bore cartridge, here it is again:

.577 Light Nitro

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Daryl_S
.600 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 22324
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: Marrakai]
      #352198 - 09/04/21 11:21 AM

Secure connection Failed

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 2916
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: Daryl_S]
      #352199 - 09/04/21 12:30 PM

OK, thanks Daryl.
Might need to toss it up somewhere more accessible.

Ha! Already did. Try this:
.577 Light Nitro

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

Edited by Marrakai (09/04/21 12:45 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2163
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: Marrakai]
      #352203 - 09/04/21 01:38 PM

Rocky Mountain Cartridge is turned brass, you don't want to use that in a Nitro loading, use drawn brass. Check Buffalo Arms.


A Mk IV action is a long lever.

What greener action do you have that has no safety--pictures please?

--------------------
DD, Ret.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EDELWEISS
.333 member


Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 488
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: DoubleD]
      #352243 - 10/04/21 09:18 PM

Quote:

Rocky Mountain Cartridge is turned brass, you don't want to use that in a Nitro loading, use drawn brass. Check Buffalo Arms.





Thanks, I will check Buffalo. Whats wrong with turned brass? This is the first time Im hearing issues. Ive been buying/using RMC cases for years BUT admittedly only with limited uses speciality cartridges.

The actions are at the smith's shop Ill try to get picks

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 32273
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #352252 - 10/04/21 11:48 PM

I think a .577 x 2 3/4 Light Nitro on a Martini-Henry single shot action would be quite cool. In the past always thought a side by side double is the only way to go, but a single shot would ne better than nothing!

How good or how bad should the MH be? Good enough to use but not good enough to upset any purists with "destroying" a rifle?

My Rosier sporting .577/450 would make a dandy conversion. But way too good to spoil by converting.




What sort of style would one go for?

Something like the Rosier?

Or a full wood to the muzzle stutzen style?

Anyone have any tips on which gunsmiths in Australia would be good for doing the job? Thanks.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
3DogMike
.375 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 717
Loc: Colorado USA
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: NitroX]
      #352260 - 11/04/21 02:45 AM

John,
I am biased, but I would choose a classic "British" look if it were my project.
Typical short forend with horn forend tip, 26" barrel, enough weight to allow reasonably comfortable shooting with 650grain "Light Nitro" if that were needed. The .577 75 Cordite 650 grain bullet loading does recoil rather convincingly in a light rifle.......

You would certainly have a proper "thumper" stalking rifle. A double .577 2 3/4 Express would be so very "pukka", but there is something about a nice slim single shot stalking rifle in the hands.

This is my Tranter Double Patent .500/.450 #1 Express with 28" barrel from Cogswell & Harrison, circa early 1870's. Of course a .577 would have a more robust looking barrel.
- Mike



--------------------
“On the Western Slope of Colorado, USA"
&
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EDELWEISS
.333 member


Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 488
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: To 577 or not? [Re: 3DogMike]
      #352268 - 11/04/21 06:28 AM

Quote:


I am biased, but I would choose a classic "British" look if it were my project.






Yes thats the look Im going for with this build. I too, would love a 577 double; but I think I can be happy with this one.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1



Extra information
0 registered and 10 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  mickey, 4seventy 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 216

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved