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Ripp
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Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410---Review / information
      #351082 - 04/03/21 03:44 AM

Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/stree...10-full-review/



VIDEO--Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8SUQAFS...IOKptlcicMzBGRc

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (04/03/21 03:46 AM)


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3DogMike
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Re: Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410---Review / information [Re: Ripp]
      #351142 - 06/03/21 03:11 PM

Dead nuts ringer for the 1920's Ithaca Auto & Burglar.
A period acceptable "Howdah"? Mmmmmm....maybe not so much.

This would be pretty fun if it were produced in something like .577 Snider or for 24 Ga Magtec brass and a Howdah style stock.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410---Review / information [Re: 3DogMike]
      #351152 - 06/03/21 05:28 PM

I'd like one of these for fun and giggles and howdah targets shoots. But that pistol grip is sheer aweful.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410---Review / information [Re: NitroX]
      #351153 - 06/03/21 05:29 PM

Hefty handgun for a .45 Colt handgun round. When they can also be fired in a revolver.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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EDELWEISS
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Re: Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410---Review / information [Re: NitroX]
      #351155 - 06/03/21 11:34 PM

Im the guy that goes bawls deep when I feel passion for something and sometimes I spend a couple fortunes buying "almosts" instead of saving for the real thing--thats exactly what Ive done with the "I have to have" a Howdah.

I started with the Black Powder version of the Pedersoli Howdah. Ive got one of the early models, with the attached ram rod. The new versions have a seperate ram rod, which I like better for actual use. Honestly I wish Pedersoli had more of a pistol grip, instead of something that feels like it started as a shotgun that was chopped off. Finally I bought a kit version. I couldnt do much to change the grip but I did shorten the barrels about 3 inches (back to even with the stock). It carries much easier with the shorter barrel. Yeah I do occasionally carry it in a crossdraw holster.

I broke down and bought one of the 45/410 versions. Im not a fan of the Auto and Burglar clones because they dont look like a Howdah. The Alaskan version has a better grip. No its not traditional looking with black rubber coated grip and forearm nor the hard chromed silver barrels; but it does feel better to me. I tested it with slugs and 45Colt. I find it acceptable, Im just not sure for what. I also occasionally that too, in a shoulder/bandoleer style holster. Its fun! My big addition was a rubber spacer fitted behind the triggerguard. It makes shooting more comfortable.

I couldnt resist the Diablo, when a used one came into the shop.... OK its even farther from a true Howdah BUT maybe its a better "modern" version primarily because its 12 gauge instead of 410 and now its available in 20 gauge. The 12 ga barrels are a bit too short even for my tastes (the 20 gauge version is available with longer varrels). The "as sold" grip is too short and looks like it came off of a Thompson SMG but there is a longer version available as well as a longer forearm, which "sorta" makes it look a bit (tiny bit) better and certainly feels better. A second PLUS is that it uses 209 primers in a break open design. It uses a single hammer that has to be "flipped" left/right for the second shot. I can "live" with that but it does make the follow up shot a bit slower when the Tiger is clawing its way up your elephant. All in all its fun and the factory holster is well made for those times when yo feel the urge to carry and for those times it has the look of a "sawed off" 12 gauge if not a 19th century Howdah.

Powerwise the Pedersoli BP 20ga and the 12 or 20ga Diablos feel like they are more trustworthy for the original intent. The Pedersoli 45/410 has the benefit of modern bras case cartridges. Im working to "build" a brass cased 410 with an exposed heavy bullet with 300+ grain slug and crammed with BP??? If I can ever get the recipe right, I suspect itll be really fun on both sides of the barrels.

So like once junkie said to me, "Its not my fault man, its an addiction...."

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

Edited by EDELWEISS (06/03/21 11:38 PM)


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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410---Review / information [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #351160 - 07/03/21 05:00 AM

A 300gr. bullet will very likely keyhole in the commercial gun's slow rifling twist.

I like Mike's idea of the Snider or maybe a rifled 20 bore SxS break-action using Magtec brass.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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EDELWEISS
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Re: Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410---Review / information [Re: DarylS]
      #351161 - 07/03/21 07:55 AM

Quote:


I like Mike's idea of the Snider or maybe a rifled 20 bore SxS break-action using Magtec brass.




I like that idea too; but here in the US that puts it in the same category as a machine gun. As cool as it would be, even Im not sure the juice is worth the squeeze.


As for the 300 gr bullets keyholing, well you guys would know better than me; but since its designed to shoot 45 colt (and 410 is a happy happenstance), arent there some heavy loads for 45colt pushing 300 grains

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410---Review / information [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #351178 - 07/03/21 03:04 PM

A .45/70 cartridge with a 480 gr projectile at 1500 fps or less is pretty close to a .577 Howdah Snider round, also 480 grs at a similar velocity. (?) Need to check.

The .45/70 would recoil more due to the increased friction of a smaller calibre.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410---Review / information [Re: NitroX]
      #351180 - 07/03/21 03:13 PM

Quote:

A .45/70 cartridge with a 480 gr projectile at 1500 fps or less is pretty close to a .577 Howdah Snider round, also 480 grs at a similar velocity. (?) Need to check.

The .45/70 would recoil more due to the increased friction of a smaller calibre.




All right I do not know the velocity of the .577 howdah rounds, but they did also use 70 grains of BP with a 480 gr projectile.


I have wondered, if it was legal, to cut back a Bailkal DR .45/70 to howdah pistol length barrels, say in front of the forend, then modify the stock to a pistol grip, how it would go?

Regulation would probably be non existent. Maybe using barrel wedges would work? I don't think regulation in a howdah pistol is that important. Extremely close range shooting. However it would be nice to be able to use one for real hunting at closer ranges and also good target shooting.

I have a feeling it would be quite a heavy howdah in the hand. Holding my Baikal, the action and barrel to the end of the forend does look hefty in weight.

I think the Police would think one is trying to make a "sawn off shotgun" bank robber type firearm if asking for permission ... and also of course, it is not legal to hunt with a pistol here. But such a "howdah pistol" would make a nice BGRC Howdah competition handgun. If it all worked. And cheapish as well. Maybe less than one-tenth of an original base case howdah.

As for .45, it is a sub-howdah calibre, and I do like those .577 muzzle holes as well.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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EDELWEISS
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Re: Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410---Review / information [Re: NitroX]
      #351228 - 08/03/21 12:20 PM

Again in the not quite a Howdah, Ive played with Contender and Encores. While only a single shot, I have to suspect that at least a few singles were pressed into service as Howdah guns. In that spirit, I cut down a 500SW barrel to 9 inches. Its surprisingly not horrible to shoot. I also cut a 50 cal Black Powder barrel down to 9 or 10 inches. Im thinking about having it bored out to 20 gauge smooth bore. Again they arent "traditional" double barrels; but the builds were fun and in the spirit of "I want a Howdah"

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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410---Review / information [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #351241 - 09/03/21 05:01 AM

At close range, the 20 bore or .62 smoothbore will 'throw' a decent pattern with solid ball and 3 buckshot. We (Taylor and I) did this in my rifled .54 flint pistol & his .58 smoothbore flint pistol. At 12 yards, the big ball was always centered with the 3 buckshot landing radially around the centre hit.
On a B-27 target, the single ball was always in the 10 ring, with the buckshot landing in the outer 9 ring to inner 8 ring. The spread was basically all in an 8 to 9" circle around the centre point.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410---Review / information [Re: NitroX]
      #351242 - 09/03/21 05:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:

A .45/70 cartridge with a 480 gr projectile at 1500 fps or less is pretty close to a .577 Howdah Snider round, also 480 grs at a similar velocity. (?) Need to check.

The .45/70 would recoil more due to the increased friction of a smaller calibre.




All right I do not know the velocity of the .577 howdah rounds, but they did also use 70 grains of BP with a 480 gr projectile.


I have wondered, if it was legal, to cut back a Bailkal DR .45/70 to howdah pistol length barrels, say in front of the forend, then modify the stock to a pistol grip, how it would go?

Regulation would probably be non existent. Maybe using barrel wedges would work? I don't think regulation in a howdah pistol is that important. Extremely close range shooting. However it would be nice to be able to use one for real hunting at closer ranges and also good target shooting.

I have a feeling it would be quite a heavy howdah in the hand. Holding my Baikal, the action and barrel to the end of the forend does look hefty in weight.

I think the Police would think one is trying to make a "sawn off shotgun" bank robber type firearm if asking for permission ... and also of course, it is not legal to hunt with a pistol here. But such a "howdah pistol" would make a nice BGRC Howdah competition handgun. If it all worked. And cheapish as well. Maybe less than one-tenth of an original base case howdah.

As for .45, it is a sub-howdah calibre, and I do like those .577 muzzle holes as well.




NitroX, I would expect the Howdah in .577 Snider to produce about 600fps to 700fps with the 480gr. conical "ball".
I had always thought the snider was loaded with 85gr. of powder, but that was the .577/450 Martini round, now that I think about it.
That load would be equivalent to a .577 rifle 'shot' at about 110 to 130yards, I would expect. It would not have much 'smash' but would penetrate well. It would be more effective on Tigers with one of Forsyth's exploding "shells" of 1861/3.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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tinker
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Re: Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410---Review / information [Re: DarylS]
      #351247 - 09/03/21 07:13 AM

Not a great deal of recoil with that load from a handgun.
Very manageable.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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EDELWEISS
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Re: Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410---Review / information [Re: tinker]
      #351249 - 09/03/21 09:53 AM

Ive been wondering if I want a howdah bad enough to go the NFA route to make Sawed Off shotgun or a Short Barreled Rifle. The thing is here in the States NFA paperwork isnt "that hard", its just a 6+ month wait for approval and a one time $200 tax.

The problem as I see it what gun to start with, without having to have a totally new stock made. There are plenty of guns with a "soft" curved grip but very few that "full" grip, that could easily be cut into a proper Howdah style grip.

IF Im going that route, I think Id opt for a 20 gauge (maybe 28ga) and load full brass shells say in the 2 to 2.5" range with a lead ball exposed (maybe with a slight crimp to hold it in place).

So I fall back to something in the 500 special range

Also I worry less (much less) about accuracy beyond bad breath range. If accuracy is important beyond 10 feet then Im using the wrong gun! Howdahs arent "Hostage Rescue" guns--They are "Get Off Me" guns.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

Edited by EDELWEISS (09/03/21 09:57 AM)


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EDELWEISS
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Re: Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410---Review / information [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #351252 - 09/03/21 10:20 AM

Perhaps Pedersoli will make one like this...
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/893542529

Of maybe Ill just add 6" barrels to a Bond Arms derringer in 3" 410?

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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410---Review / information [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #351254 - 09/03/21 10:40 AM

.410/.45 - way too small imho. I would think a .58/.577 would be about minimum.
That would take a 24 bore brass case.
A 20 bore would be even better.
A 16 bore - better than that and
A 12 bore - now we're talking HOWDAH!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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EDELWEISS
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Re: Pedersoli Howdah 45 / 410---Review / information [Re: DarylS]
      #351255 - 09/03/21 11:39 AM

Quote:

.410/.45 - way too small imho.




Too small as in bullet diameter or power? The 500-450 gun I posted above may be more powerful; but something loaded to 454 Casull or 460/500 SW is hard to argue with the power.

I agree 28 or 20 gauge would be more in keeping with traditional guns. Something in 577 (28 ga) might be perfect and IF in a period cartridge might even get the sporting gun exception to the greater than 50 caliber NFA issue here in the States.

Howdahs have a reputation for power; but how much power compared to modern nitro cartridges. I get the crushing power of a lead ball but how does that compare to penetration when it comes to stopping at tiger on your elephant range?

45/410 works from the "no legal question" position, if not the cool as big as your thumb look.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed


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