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Ripp
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The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT,
      #350813 - 25/02/21 06:07 AM

THE .455 WEBLEY:

BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, PART 1

WRITTEN BY JOHN TAFFIN


https://gunsmagazine.com/our-experts/the-455-webley/

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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93x64mm
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: Ripp]
      #350817 - 25/02/21 07:27 AM

Good article Ripp

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DarylS
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: 93x64mm]
      #350823 - 25/02/21 11:27 AM

Yes, indeed.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rule303
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: Ripp]
      #350850 - 26/02/21 10:27 AM

Good and for me, informative article Ripp. Thanks for posting.

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sbs470
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: Rule303]
      #350890 - 27/02/21 08:10 PM

Thank for posting Ripp

I'm all tooled up to start loading the 455 .I have everything except a lead pot to cast projectiles.
I have a 1903 Fosbery and a MK VI to shoot
Looking forward to the second part of the article


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DarylS
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: sbs470]
      #350909 - 28/02/21 05:35 AM

I use and like 2 20 pound adjustable temp Lee Pots. I use one for hard rifle & pistol/revolver alloys and one for pure lead round balls and black powder rifle bullets.
I converted both for dipping. They were both bottom pour pots, which I didn't like due to the constant dripping.
I used an impact driver and #6 self-tapping sheet metal screws to plug the bottom pouring holes from the inside.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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93x64mm
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: sbs470]
      #350912 - 28/02/21 07:50 AM

Quote:

Thank for posting Ripp

I'm all tooled up to start loading the 455 .I have everything except a lead pot to cast projectiles.
I have a 1903 Fosbery and a MK VI to shoot
Looking forward to the second part of the article




Yes it would be nice to see what you can do with your MkVI, matey!
It would make a fantastic range report. They were pretty tough units, supposed good triggers though from memory.


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sbs470
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: 93x64mm]
      #350914 - 28/02/21 08:02 AM

thanks Daryl That's the one intend to get

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: sbs470]
      #350919 - 28/02/21 03:11 PM

I would love to get a MkVI one day in good shootable condition.

Being a .455 and in excess of the handgun limit of 9mm/.357, how do you guys justify yours?

In SA I believe either a collectors licence. But in SA that means one is not allowed to possess ammunition for any firearm listed on a collectors licence. One can shoot a collectors firearms ONCE per year. Ridiculous I know.

The other way sport target shooters get a greater than 9 mm is if they shoot a sports discipline requiring metal silhouette targets to be knocked over. The police have accepted a cartridge firing a projectile of greater mass is required. I believe the SSAA Action Match discipline is acceptable (?). That would be one sporting discipline which maybe I would enjoy. Possible would need a minimum of either six or four attendances per year.

Thanks Ripp for posting the article. It was interesting to read.

Now if I had one, and a suitable leather brown or tan holster and a suitable matching brown or tan leather belt and/or cross shoulder belt. And the full colonial outfit with pith helmet, I could attend a vintagers.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (10/03/21 04:06 AM)


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vykkagur
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: NitroX]
      #351262 - 09/03/21 11:51 PM

Excellent catch, Ripp, thank you.

Same author, much the same article, different magazine, from the year before:

https://americanhandgunner.com/gear/british-boomers-2/

And for those of us who are more recent arrivals to the forum, a look back at Marrakai's most impressive Webley display, "Handguns of the Empire":

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=265192&an=0&page=6#Post265192

I've never been particularly interested in revolvers, but the hinge-frame Webleys and Enfields are very much another matter. I wish I'd developed this appreciation 40+ years ago when I first started buying "old guns". The basement dealer from whom I bought my surplus hardware had Enfield No.2's hanging on the wall for under $40, and Mk.VI Webley's for under $80. Typical kid, I didn't want to look at anything that didn't chamber a cartridge that said "auto" on the base. I could have filled a suitcase for less than the cost of one new rifle.

With the current interest in modern "retro-guns", I really believe that there would be a market for Webley replicas, using modern steels and chamberings. They don't seem to have any trouble finding buyers for Colt SAA clones. Imagine being able to buy a brand new Mk.I Webley as a fun plinker/range gun. (Although I imagine the 4-inch barrel would be problematic in many jurisdictions.)


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3DogMike
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: vykkagur]
      #351267 - 10/03/21 06:12 AM

Not a .455, but maybe legal more places?
Gearing up for new production copy of MkIV:

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/webley-scott-to-launch-made-in-india-revolvers-204616

and
https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/first-webley-scott-mk-iv-revolvers-produced-in-india/

.32 S&W Long.....ought to be good for enraged field mice?
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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vykkagur
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: 3DogMike]
      #351270 - 10/03/21 08:29 AM

Quote:

Not a .455, but maybe legal more places?
Gearing up for new production copy of MkIV:

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/webley-scott-to-launch-made-in-india-revolvers-204616

and
https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/first-webley-scott-mk-iv-revolvers-produced-in-india/

.32 S&W Long.....ought to be good for enraged field mice?
- Mike





Indeed, but only with careful shot placement. (Actually, truth be known, my first pistol from the aforementioned basement gun shop was a beautiful Star .32 Auto, so I really can't be too disparaging!)

When I envisioned a modern replica, I had actually in mind something a little more robust. With modern steels, there's no reason not to be able to produce the late model Mk.IV in a modern .38, and even an authentic Mk.I/II/III or Boer War Mk.IV in .455. The ammunition is available, and so are reloading dies.


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3DogMike
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: vykkagur]
      #351285 - 10/03/21 02:25 PM

Quote:

.......(snip)......When I envisioned a modern replica, I had actually in mind something a little more robust. With modern steels, there's no reason not to be able to produce the late model Mk.IV in a modern .38, and even an authentic Mk.I/II/III or Boer War Mk.IV in .455. The ammunition is available, and so are reloading dies.




I have read on a separate source that the reasoning (???) behind the choice of calibre is that this is initially to be produced for the market in India.
Apparently there is/are rather strict (draconian) restriction on allowable calibre for civilian pistol permits there.

So.......whomever in India buys one of these for "self defense" had better bring along a more effective tool like a cricket bat for "follow up shots".
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: 3DogMike]
      #351286 - 11/03/21 01:16 AM

Quote:

Not a .455, but maybe legal more places?
Gearing up for new production copy of MkIV:

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/webley-scott-to-launch-made-in-india-revolvers-204616

and
https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/first-webley-scott-mk-iv-revolvers-produced-in-india/

.32 S&W Long.....ought to be good for enraged field mice?
- Mike




The usual badly written Indian news article.

Quote:

Since there is demand for revolvers, the unit will be manufacturing it initially. Its cost would be Rs 1.55 lakh. Other products will be brought in the market later, he had said.




US$2,311.

Quote:

While currently only available for the Indian domestic market, Webley & Scott India does intend to export the firearms to other countries, like the U.S., in the coming years. Pricing for the revolvers converts to roughly $1,300.




--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: NitroX]
      #351287 - 11/03/21 01:25 AM

Not sure what happened to the Anderson Wheeler Mk VII Webley copy in .357 Magnum. I used to speak to Stuart Anderson Wheeler about six monthly. The family sold the business to a buyer who was to bring in increased capital and the introduction of shotguns, rifles, handguns etc. Never really was updated with just what was happening at that point. Played phone tag and ended up never getting in touch. Maybe a year ago, touched base again and received a call, I never followed it back up. I must do so.

I think a proper sized Mk VI sized handgun in a suitable calibre perhaps .357 Magnum would be far preferable. Than some Indian ghetto gangster pocket .32.

Hopefully the Indian gunmakers tool up to something devent. The Indian article waffles about all sorts of the usual Indian irrelevant guff, pollie diary schedules and what not. Does mention "future intentions" of tooling up for military production.

IF the AW 'Webleys" are still being made at some four to ten times the price (!) and some better priced Indian handguns, that would be a plus.

One of our members had ordered two of the Anderson Wheeler handguns, and if delivered I would have thought in his hands by now? Or not? Would be good to see them, if they are now in his hands.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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vykkagur
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: 3DogMike]
      #351300 - 11/03/21 02:49 AM

Quote:

Quote:

.......(snip)......When I envisioned a modern replica, I had actually in mind something a little more robust. With modern steels, there's no reason not to be able to produce the late model Mk.IV in a modern .38, and even an authentic Mk.I/II/III or Boer War Mk.IV in .455. The ammunition is available, and so are reloading dies.




I have read on a separate source that the reasoning (???) behind the choice of calibre is that this is initially to be produced for the market in India.
Apparently there is/are rather strict (draconian) restriction on allowable calibre for civilian pistol permits there.

So.......whomever in India buys one of these for "self defense" had better bring along a more effective tool like a cricket bat for "follow up shots".
- Mike





HA! Good one! If the quality of this new Webley-in-name-only revolver is anything like the copies they've been putting out up to now, you'd probably have a better chance of hitting your target by chucking the cricket bat.

I think you're spot on about being aimed at their domestic market and hobbled because of that. If a replica has to be produced overseas (which is, sadly, how manufacturing works these days), then it should be produced explicitly for export to the major markets, the increasingly few countries that still allow us to possess such evil "implements of Satan". Ironically, the manufacturing country would likely be one where the very citizens building the guns are prohibited from owning any themselves. The replicas need not be called "Webley" (copyright and all that). The design has an appeal all its' own and stands on its' own merits. And it needn't be a barrel-burning magnum, either. The design can't realistically compete with the Dirty Harry guns for strength. Regular .38 and .45 calibers, if not .455 then Auto Rim or the ACP half-moon option, will do fine. There's a lot to be said for a big chunk of lead loping along at a dignified pace, as long as it can land reliably on the spot where it was aimed. Load your own ammo, cast your own slugs, burn off the stresses of the 21st century punching holes on paper (choice of silhouette on the target is at your discretion) or despatching empty beer cans with malice.


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vykkagur
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: NitroX]
      #351301 - 11/03/21 03:12 AM

Quote:

Not sure what happened to the Anderson Wheeler Mk VII Webley copy in .357 Magnum. I used to speak to Stuart Anderson Wheeler about six monthly. The family sold the business to a buyer who was to bring in increased capital and the introduction of shotguns, rifles, handguns etc. Never really was updated with just what was happening at that point. Played phone tag and ended up never getting in touch. Maybe a year ago, touched base again and received a call, I never followed it back up. I must do so.

I think a proper sized Mk VI sized handgun in a suitable calibre perhaps .357 Magnum would be far preferable. Than some Indian ghetto gangster pocket .32.

Hopefully the Indian gunmakers tool up to something devent. The Indian article waffles about all sorts of the usual Indian irrelevant guff, pollie diary schedules and what not. Does mention "future intentions" of tooling up for military production.

IF the AW 'Webleys" are still being made at some four to ten times the price (!) and some better priced Indian handguns, that would be a plus.

One of our members had ordered two of the Anderson Wheeler handguns, and if delivered I would have thought in his hands by now? Or not? Would be good to see them, if they are now in his hands.






I read a gunshow report two years ago where the reporter asked one of his British counterparts about the status of Anderson Wheeler. His pithy reply centred around the words "tits up".


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Marrakai
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: vykkagur]
      #358109 - 14/11/21 11:39 AM

Late post, apologies.
FYI

A 1917 .455 Webley Mk.VI revolver (as issued) won the NT Remembrance Day Military Pistol shoot at Mickett Creek Range in Darwin yesterday.

The course of fire was 10 shots precision at 25m, followed by 10 shots rapid-fire (2x 5 shots in 5 seconds) also at 25m.

There were plenty of Colt 1911 .45s and a few 9mm autos in the mix.
Serious business shooting the big Webley rapid-fire double-action! Arnold Schwarzenegger's trigger-finger might have helped!

Point is, there's plenty of life left in the old originals, provided bore condition is ok, so no more pining for the Anderson Wheeler please!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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3DogMike
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: Marrakai]
      #358112 - 14/11/21 02:58 PM

Lucky for me to have found a Webley Mk IV .455 "Boer War" model. Absolutely pristine bore and a nice arsenal refinish.

Not truly 100% original as the rear face of the cylinder has been "shaved" to allow .45ACP in moon clips or .45 Auto Rim. This was a pretty typical mod for these imported into the 'States where .455 ammo was/is nearly unobtainable. (.455 brass is occasionally available these days as well as Fiocci ammo)

Current Webley owners here need to be aware that shooting .45ACP in the Webley is a BAD idea…..very undersized cylinder throats plus hard jacketed bullets, and the .45ACP pressure is fairly equal to original .455 proof loads.

At any rate I handload 265 grain soft cast bullets to ~600'/sec which duplicates the original loadings.

Very mild recoil, but a VERY heavy double action pull. I cannot imagine 10 shots rapid fire double action as Tony has mentioned above?
Supposing "minute of Boer or Zulu" at very close range would be doable in double action…..
The birdshead grip may not be totally up to later combat standards, but is a nice retro touch that I find is no problem in use.

This old warhorse is a pure fun anacronism that could still save ones bacon if the chips were down. (at least where legal)
- Mike




--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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eagle27
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: 3DogMike]
      #358113 - 14/11/21 04:18 PM

I had a very good condition Webley MkVI with a 4" barrel and square grip. The bore was excellent. I cast Lyman 250gr bullets for it but also shot 185gr jacketed, the Speer 200gr "flying ashtray" bullet as they were known as, and the Hornady 250gr jacketed hollow point. The bore was .452" so it shot the whole range of bullets well. Loaded up to 600 - 700fps MV with the heaviest to lightest bullets.

I made a bunch of cases for the Webley cutting down 45 Colt cases and thinning the rim on the lathe. The cylinder had not been shaved. Also had the 22LR conversion kit for the Webley consisting of an exchange cylinder and insert barrel. The 22LR barrel was 6" so I made up an extended knurled fitting that screwed to the insert barrel muzzle to hold the insert in place, looked just like silencer on the end of the Webley barrel. The 22LR was not quite as accurate as the 455 so didn't use it much eventually selling the conversion kit to an owner of a 6" barreled MKVI.
I also had an original packet of the 265gr FMJ military rounds, collectors item, which I never fired.

The Webley accounted for a couple of red deer, quite few feral goats (bush shooting) and a lot of possums, hare and rabbit, also a cattle beast which had suffered a broken leg and which I purchased from the farmer. Head shot the beast from a few metres away. My Webley was quite accurate with all bullets and the double action was smooth enough to shoot well. The SA trigger pull was heavy anyway so DA was as good. My two youngest kids at the time, 6yo boy and 9yo girl, used to enjoy shooting it, me wrapping their hands in mine of course but the recoil didn't bother them at all.

Our local country cop used to get me to accompany him when he raided cannabis plots, he always carried his issue S&W MP10 38 Special revolver in a shoulder holster, unknown to him my Webley always sat in one too.

All this was a few decades ago now and I eventually sold it on.

I never took any photos of my Webley, just a couple of the ammo I used as below.

185gr Winchester FMJ, 250Gr Hornady HP and 250gr Lyman cast 455 Webley reloads.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: Marrakai]
      #358119 - 14/11/21 05:30 PM

Quote:

Late post, apologies.
FYI

A 1917 .455 Webley Mk.VI revolver (as issued) won the NT Remembrance Day Military Pistol shoot at Mickett Creek Range in Darwin yesterday.

The course of fire was 10 shots precision at 25m, followed by 10 shots rapid-fire (2x 5 shots in 5 seconds) also at 25m.

There were plenty of Colt 1911 .45s and a few 9mm autos in the mix.
Serious business shooting the big Webley rapid-fire double-action! Arnold Schwarzenegger's trigger-finger might have helped!

Point is, there's plenty of life left in the old originals, provided bore condition is ok, so no more pining for the Anderson Wheeler please!




I would love a .455 Webley vintage revolver in good shooting condition.

Now howcan I get one in South Aust? i.e. a .455 cal revolver or handgun?

How are these justified in other states and territories? In SA anything over .38/9mm is heavily restricted.

I might have to take up handgun metal silhouette target shooting? Six matches at least, or fou?, required for the category of licence. Maybe Action match is also acceptable?

I know from legislation/discussions that the cops only accept them here if the larger bullet is needed to knock over a steel target.

Information requested, gentlemen.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (14/11/21 05:33 PM)


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eagle27
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: NitroX]
      #358122 - 14/11/21 07:53 PM

Couple of images of recovered bullets fired from my Webley MKVI, 185gr Winchester FMJ showing engraving of the rifling and a Speer HP "flying ashtray" bullet showing good expansion, from memory was recovered from riverbed silt after a pass through on a rabbit.





Edited by eagle27 (14/11/21 08:13 PM)


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DarylS
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: eagle27]
      #358130 - 15/11/21 05:21 AM

Have sold a few of those, when I worked in a gun shop back in the 70's. The local Sikhs bought every Webley .38 S&W we could get. Apparently, they'd send them back to relatives in India.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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93x64mm
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: eagle27]
      #358133 - 15/11/21 07:03 AM

Quote:

Couple of images of recovered bullets fired from my Webley MKVI, 185gr Winchester FMJ showing engraving of the rifling and a Speer HP "flying ashtray" bullet showing good expansion, from memory was recovered from riverbed silt after a pass through on a rabbit.





I think the rabbit had everything to do with this flattening!
Tough rabbits over in the land of the long white cloud!
Good shot though Eagle27


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mckinney
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Re: The 455 Webley....BRITAIN’S BIG-BORE HEAVYWEIGHT, [Re: 93x64mm]
      #358400 - 21/11/21 03:16 PM

I’d love to have an original British .455 Webley, especially one of the cased WS Target versions. These are available at very reasonable prices in the UK but they are not importable due to the ‘drop test’. (Colt SAAs also fail this test as I found out the hard way.) The “Fosberry” version, strangely, is importable but much more expensive.

I have a couple S&W triple locks and 2nd model hand ejectors in this caliber and they are a real pleasure to shoot. That 262 gr pill moving at 650 fps or so is certainly enough for self defense. The .455 was used in a multiple homicide in El Paso (or Albuquerque?) some years ago.

Elmer Keith in ‘Sixguns’ gives the .455 favorable mention and says it’s particularly good for shooting game birds (grouse I think he says) without destroying too much meat.

Another cartridge along the same lines is the .38/200 or .38 S&W. Big 200 grain slug lumbering along about 650-700. In a way these two are much more appealing than the .357 and .44 mag.


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