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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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EDELWEISS
.333 member


Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 394
Loc: Gettysburg
A Double Rifle for N America
      #349144 - 12/01/21 12:16 PM

If you were picking a DR for N America, WHAT would you choose? Most of my hunting is either Eastern woods with some Southern Texas Hog hunting. I generally dont like shots more than 100 yards (OK maybe 150 yards). Sure Id like to hunt Moose and Elk; but Im much more likely to be hunting Whitetail of Wild Boar with a chance for another Black Bear.

Given a choice I would pick a rimmed round over a rimless But maybe thats too much old school and rimless is OK? I had a 9.3x74R until a buddy liked it more. 8mm JRS seems good. 45-70 seems like the easy button. For coolness the longer 45s like 45-90, 100, 110, or the big daddy 45-120 just scream old school DR cartridges.

Would you want a SxS or O/U, Hammer or Hammerless? Whats your choice?


Im EDITING this to add a currently unavailable option, Id dearly love a double RIFLED 12 or 20 gauge

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If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

Edited by EDELWEISS (12/01/21 12:50 PM)


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crshelton
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/15
Posts: 188
Loc: Republic of Texas
Re: A Double Rifle for N America [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #349148 - 12/01/21 12:49 PM

Well, I picked two:
Because I like my Winchester 1895 .405, I found and bought a Simson - Suhl .405 WCF SxS with express sights and the rear rib machined to take Talley scope rings or Talley peep sight. It is regulated for 300 grain bullets at 2250 fps and shoots these into less than one inch at 50 yards. Nice wood too.


I always wanted a double in .45-90 (.458 2.4) to go with my 1886 .45-90, but they are rare, so when the opportunity came to buy a nice used Beretta .45-70 double with 26 barrels, I jumped on it, thinking it would be easy to extend the chambers. Had I never shot it, I would have extended the chambers, but I did and it was sweet! Both barrels are sub minute of angle with 300 grain bullets and it groups even better with 400 grain bullets. So, it is a work-in-progress now. Did kill a boar with it and the caliber makes short work of such beasties.





With the ability to shoot 210 grain to 400 grain bullets in the .405 and 300-450 grain bullets in the .45-70, I may never need another double rifle.

--------------------
CRS,NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/

Edited by crshelton (12/01/21 12:52 PM)


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EDELWEISS
.333 member


Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 394
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: A Double Rifle for N America [Re: crshelton]
      #349149 - 12/01/21 01:02 PM

Wow (he slaps forehead) I totally forgot 405Win. I too, have a Winchester 1895 albeit a newer one. I almost took it to Afrika for lion; but my 470DR won out.

Years ago there was an article in one of the then popular gun magazines about the Pedersoli (Colt Pattern) Hammer Double rifle in 45-70. The author lengthen the chambers to 45-120. When I read that, I was in total LUST. I dont recall how it worked for him, all I remember is the pics of the Double Rifle with those long cases.....

I did a internet search last night for the 45 long cases just incase I ever make the leap. Theres a lot of options, at least a lot of listings; but very little currently in stock.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed


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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5101
Loc: Alleghany County, Virginia, US...
Re: A Double Rifle for N America [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #349159 - 12/01/21 11:48 PM

.303 British.

Most British doubles in that caliber are regulated for the 215 grain bullet, which has a very high sectional density resulting in deep penetration.

The rifles in this caliber are perfectly balanced, svelte, and handy.

Brass is plentiful. Woodleigh bullets are the right choice.

What else does a man need?

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 31804
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Re: A Double Rifle for N America [Re: CptCurl]
      #349171 - 13/01/21 02:09 AM

Not in North America, but I would choose a 9.3x74R or a .375 H&H Flanged. Either choice will handle anything and everything in any circumstances in North America including brown bear. Great for moose or elk. Over-gunned a little on deer but not too badly.

Add a scope on it and can snipe at hunting ranges with at least one barrel.

My Valmet in 9.3x74R with scope, it is an under and over, would do fine. Put in the 12-bore barrels and you have a shotgun.

I do prefer a side by side. Oneday will have one in .375 ... maybe ...

***

From realms of armchair North American expertise, I have always regarded the 9.3 or .338 as the ideal alround North American calibres. So a .333 or .318 would also work well. And be less overgunned on medium sized deer etc. But 250 to 300 gr bullets when needed.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3203
Loc: Colorado
Re: A Double Rifle for N America [Re: NitroX]
      #349179 - 13/01/21 02:52 AM

Id take a look at the 450bpe.

One thing Ive wanted to try is a round ball load (1,2 or three in the case) and see what happens.
Seems like a 450 could cover rabbit to moose with the appropriate load.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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degoins
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Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 191
Loc: SC, USA
Re: A Double Rifle for N America [Re: Huvius]
      #349196 - 13/01/21 06:32 AM

"Id take a look at the 450bpe."

+1

I've tried it on a few whitetails so far and it works really well.


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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 630
Loc: Colorado USA
Re: A Double Rifle for N America [Re: degoins]
      #349207 - 13/01/21 12:40 PM

Easy.....go .405 Winchester, then when the nostalgia bug hits you can call it a .40-72 Winchester and use black powder.
HINT: avoid the BP substitutes they are for posers..... (or Poofters)
- Mike

--------------------
On the Western Slope of Colorado, USA"
&
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon


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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4471
Loc: Nevada
Re: A Double Rifle for N America [Re: 3DogMike]
      #349209 - 13/01/21 02:23 PM

My 500-450 3-1/2" BPE is good for anything I'd get to hunt here in North America

I was shooting the 20bore Purdey this weekend. It's good for any deer or antelope, hog or black bear.

The 16bore is similar but more power.

I'd really like a slender 30 caliber double rifle, my 8mm ejector rifle was fantastic. Some day when I get caught up on expenses for the kids I'll get that 30 caliber SxS

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: A Double Rifle for N America [Re: tinker]
      #349223 - 13/01/21 08:12 PM

Quote:

I'd really like a slender 30 caliber double rifle, my 8mm ejector rifle was fantastic. Some day when I get caught up on expenses for the kids I'll get that 30 caliber SxS




I was going to say my not yet used Tikka U/O barrel set in .30-06 was another ideal, especially American chambering. Also handles anything in North America, though a little less assurance for charging Brown bear in the Alders! Perfect for everything else.

Not a nice slim SS double rifle! Though one fifth to a twentieth of a possible price.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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EDELWEISS
.333 member


Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 394
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: A Double Rifle for N America [Re: NitroX]
      #349225 - 13/01/21 11:11 PM

ALL great ideas. Im still pushing for a 12 or even 20 gauge rifled SxS perhaps with the capability to use (brass) 3 or 3 1/2 in shells. Im thinking a 3" 20 gauge would handle even big Bears. That being said I know its DR fantasy.

Since 30-06 is THE American cartridge, its hard to argue against. 35 Whelen might be better for heavier game.

A QD scope mount seems like a 21century option for longer shots where necessary; but Im thinking more towards a small Red Dot like a Trijicon RMR with a large dot for closer shots and still keeping a minimum footprint

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed


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Daryl_S
.600 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 21886
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: A Double Rifle for N America [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #349237 - 14/01/21 01:53 PM

Well, apparently you can make 3 1/2" 12 bore brass cases out of .5 Browning cases.

As far as I know, the commercial brass 12 bore cases are 2 5/8" at most, at lest as sold by Buffalo Arms.

How long 20bore cases happen to be, I don't know. Can they be made out of .600 Nitro brass?

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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LRF
.224 member


Reged: 28/03/11
Posts: 37
Loc: minnesota ,usa
Re: A Double Rifle for N America [Re: Daryl_S]
      #349240 - 14/01/21 09:35 PM

45-120's compared to a 45-70. I shoot the 45-120's in my Remington Rolling Block Creedmore.


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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 2263
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: A Double Rifle for N America [Re: LRF]
      #349241 - 14/01/21 10:36 PM

Quote:

45-120's compared to a 45-70. I shoot the 45-120's in my Remington Rolling Block Creedmore.





Great old round (both really) the old .45-120, it must have compared favourably with the .450BPE?
In full Nitro form it would be a blast, rechambering a Ruger No1 in.45-70 to one of those!


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EDELWEISS
.333 member


Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 394
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: A Double Rifle for N America [Re: 93x64mm]
      #349244 - 14/01/21 11:09 PM

Yeah 45-120 is a hoot. Years ago I had a 45-70 H&R Buffalo Rifle rechambered to 45-120. When I got it back from having the 30" tube brass telescope mounted a buddy insisted that he had to have it...That seems to be to story of my guns, I come up with what seems like really cool guns and end up selling them to buddies who only see the beauty of the project once its in their hands, then Im off to the next. That was when I was young, now Ive reached the point in life where I want what I want FOR ME!

As for making brass shotshelss from 50 BMG shells, well I guess its about as simple as making shotshells from a 68 VW bumper. I assume youre talking about the 12ga from hell stuff. Just take a look at a 50 BMG case then tell me how much lathe work you think it needs....

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed


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Daryl_S
.600 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 21886
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: A Double Rifle for N America [Re: 93x64mm]
      #349254 - 15/01/21 04:55 AM

Quote:

Quote:

45-120's compared to a 45-70. I shoot the 45-120's in my Remington Rolling Block Creedmore.





Great old round (both really) the old .45-120, it must have compared favourably with the .450BPE?
In full Nitro form it would be a blast, rechambering a Ruger No1 in.45-70 to one of those!




The .45 3-1/4" was never a "Sharps" factory chambering however there were some Sharps rifles turned up with 3 1/4" chambers, notably .40, .45 and .50 calibres. At that time, Winchester actually chambered a .45 3 1/4" ctg. loaded with lighter bullets, same as the British Express ctg. They even used the same brass, I think. Winchester brought the .50 3 1/4" round out actually after Sharps closed their doors.
Other gun smiths or shops, possibly in St. Louis, re-chambered existing rifles to the 3 1/4" case. Fruend (sp) was one-such gun smith.
As far as comparing with the British .450 Express, the express was loaded with light weight, 270 to 300gr. bullets normally, while the 3 1/4" chambering in Sharps rifles were usually loaded with heavier, 500gr. and up, bullets, just as the long, 2 7/8" Sharps ctg. in .45 was loaded.
The Sharps 2 7/8" ctg. was called by what was loaded in it, which even happened to be 120gr. of powder and a 550gr. bullet, ie: .45/120/550. It did not need 3 1/4" to load 120gr. powder.
I also had a Remington RB in .45 3 1/4" chambering.

Loaded with modern powders & in a lever action rifle, the .45/70 will exceed what the 3 1/4" case (British or American) could do with black powder, with any bullet weight.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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