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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1111
Loc: Whitetail Country
A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal
      #348360 - 23/12/20 11:41 AM

Hello All,

Aside from Big-Bores .. I also like the little ones. Especially the Rook Rifles.

Here's a Belgium Proofed Mariette Side-Lever Take-Down Rook rifle. The gun is very high quality with excellent workmanship and a Mint Bore. It has an ejector-assist, and it even has heel & toe plates. It is in an extremely rare 300 Long Shot caliber. I never could find any loading data so I had to contrive some from scratch.

As always, comments are welcome ...









--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26498
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: buckstix]
      #348365 - 23/12/20 01:23 PM

6.6gr. should be doing about 1,000fps to 1100fps, buckstix.

Good innovation. But, pray tell, where did the brass come from? RMC headstamp?

Shooting TB in rifles is a lot of fun and no brass to clean.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: DarylS]
      #348369 - 23/12/20 02:08 PM

Buckstix you Sir are damaged in the most wonderful way.

Keep on keeping on!

Your drive in the pursuit of your collection is deserving of a medal.



Merry Christmas to you.
I'll do what I can to hijack Santa's delivery to your pad.


Cheers!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: tinker]
      #348379 - 23/12/20 06:13 PM

Marvelous little rifle, Buckstix!
That chambering could have been a nightmare, seems like you have risen to the challenge!

I have a near-identical rook rifle retailed by W.P.Jones and wearing Birmingham proofs, notwithstanding its obvious Belgian roots.
It has an Anson push-rod fore-end latch, rather than the wedge fastening of your example.
Mine is chambered for the original .22 Long, and seems quite happy shooting standard velocity .22 LR cartridges.

Joke is, the .22 is specifically excluded from Rook Rifle matches in our Big Game Rifle Club National Rules! Damn!!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1111
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: DarylS]
      #348381 - 23/12/20 09:09 PM

Quote:

6.6gr. should be doing about 1,000fps to 1100fps, buckstix.

Good innovation. But, pray tell, where did the brass come from? RMC headstamp?

Shooting TB in rifles is a lot of fun and no brass to clean.


Hello Daryl_S
Thanks for the reply.

I'll be choreographing later today - we'll see how close your estimate is. I also tried IMR4198 and IMR4227 but the small charges filled less than 1/4 of the case before cases started sticking. And, those powders were very position sensitive. When the powder was level in the case, no problem, but when the powder was back in the case against the primer, cases would stick. Case sticking was a big problem with this long straight case.

When I used TB, I got 80% case filling. The small paper pill placed in the bottom of the case brought it up to 90% and kept the powder away from the primer. I learned this little trick 30 years ago.

The cartridges cases were made by Rocky Mountain Cartridge Co. They are custom brass case are producers. I have used them many, many times in the past to make several different hard to find cases. After making a chamber cast, I searched every nook and cranny for info on this cartridge, but found nothing. And there are no existing cartridges to use to make this case. As usual, RMC came to my rescue.

Yes, I hate shooting BP in classic guns. I don't want to take the chance that a spot is missed when cleaning, only to find rust the next time the gun is used.

Quote:

Buckstix you Sir are damaged in the most wonderful way. Keep on keeping on!
Your drive in the pursuit of your collection is deserving of a medal.
Merry Christmas to you. I'll do what I can to hijack Santa's delivery to your pad.

Cheers!


Hello tinker,
Thanks for the reply.

Yes, my wife says its a sickness and I'm a horder. I keep telling her there are no old newspapers and dead cats in my hoard.

Quote:

Marvelous little rifle, Buckstix!
That chambering could have been a nightmare, seems like you have risen to the challenge!

I have a near-identical rook rifle retailed by W.P.Jones and wearing Birmingham proofs, notwithstanding its obvious Belgian roots.
It has an Anson push-rod fore-end latch, rather than the wedge fastening of your example.
Mine is chambered for the original .22 Long, and seems quite happy shooting standard velocity .22 LR cartridges.

Joke is, the .22 is specifically excluded from Rook Rifle matches in our Big Game Rifle Club National Rules! Damn!!



Hello Marrakai
Thanks for the reply.

As I explained above, its been a challenge. Long straight sided cases can be a problem with smokeless powders. Also, the bore groove dia. is a true .300 inches so case mouth walls had to be .020 inches thick, and the only .300 dia. commercial bullets available were Hornady 128g spitzers. Those key-holed. The little 32 cal heal bullet works great. The two bands of the small .312 inch dia. heel bullet has a bearing surface of only .080 inches. When fired, the soft lead instantly swage-down through the tapered throat of the chamber with no effects of pressure or accuracy.

Test Targets will follow later today.



--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3985
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: tinker]
      #348386 - 23/12/20 10:51 PM

Quote:

Buckstix you Sir are damaged in the most wonderful way.

Keep on keeping on!

Your drive in the pursuit of your collection is deserving of a medal.

Merry Christmas to you.
I'll do what I can to hijack Santa's delivery to your pad.

Cheers!



I don't think anyone could have put it better - for all subject covered!
Certainly looking for your range report, as always you've done your homework first!
Lovely old lady you have their mate......lucky bugger!

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Rookandrabbit
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Reged: 30/01/15
Posts: 26
Loc: United kingdom
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: 93x64mm]
      #348391 - 24/12/20 12:19 AM

Sir what a beautiful Rook and Rabbit rifle you have! On looking at the pictures I thought oh it’s a Sherwood .300 caliber but having stopped being lost in the blueing and quality I read your accompanying text.! Was unaware of such a cartridge. NEVER TOO OLD TO LEARN,!
I looked in Bill Flemings book British Sporting Cartridges, Barnes Cartridges of the World still none the wiser.
Could the rifle have been relined at some point in the distant past to a rare experimental cartridge.
This is definitely one that requires homework good luck with your endeavours and keep us posted please. Regards Steve.

--------------------
Steve

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26498
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: Rookandrabbit]
      #348404 - 24/12/20 04:37 AM

Thanks Buckstix. I am eagerly awaiting your results.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1111
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: DarylS]
      #348410 - 24/12/20 06:39 AM

Quote:

I don't think anyone could have put it better - for all subject covered!
Certainly looking for your range report, as always you've done your homework first!
Lovely old lady you have their mate......lucky bugger!


Hello 93x64,
Thanks for the reply.

Range report is below.

Quote:

Sir what a beautiful Rook and Rabbit rifle you have! On looking at the pictures I thought oh it’s a Sherwood .300 caliber but having stopped being lost in the blueing and quality I read your accompanying text.! Was unaware of such a cartridge. NEVER TOO OLD TO LEARN,!
I looked in Bill Flemings book British Sporting Cartridges, Barnes Cartridges of the World still none the wiser.
Could the rifle have been relined at some point in the distant past to a rare experimental cartridge.
This is definitely one that requires homework good luck with your endeavors and keep us posted please. Regards Steve.


Hello Rookandrabbit,
Thanks for the reply.

I also looked in every book I own on cartridges, all 8 of them, and I could find nothing. The rifle has not been relined and looks all original. Maybe someone just wanted a sspecial .30 caliber that held more black powder.

Quote:

Thanks Buckstix. I am eagerly awaiting your results.


Hello Daryl_S
Thanks for the reply.

Well, I'm back from the range and I am pleased as can be. I only shot on our 50 foot indoor range because it was pretty cold outside this morning. I think I got what I was looking for. -see the target- This is FLY target that we use in offhand competition. The black circles are 3/8" thick and 2-3/8" outside diameter. Although we shoot mostly with scopes and aim directly at the fly, the thick black circle allows the use of iron sights, as with this rifle. If the bullet stays totally inside the black circle, you get 1 point. If you "HIT" the fly (wing, antenna, leg) its a "HIT" and you get 2 points. If you "KILL the fly by hitting the head or body, its a "KILL" and you get 3 points. 2-shots per fly - total of 10 shots per target. Unlimited siighters at the upper left target. Best score you can get is a "30". Each relay is 1 target, 10 targets total for a match. We shoot 1 target per week during the Winter Months.

As you can see, the rifle performed admirably. It took a couple of shots to get it zeroed-in, but then; the last 3 shots resulted in 1-HIT and 2-KILLS. What a HOOT ! ! ! And look at the standard deviation .. a "6" ... that's amazing and surpassed my most optimistic expectations. I'm still grinning 3 hours later.

Rooks and Rabbits beware. .... and squirrels too.



--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: buckstix]
      #348411 - 24/12/20 07:05 AM

Very good!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Rookandrabbit
.224 member


Reged: 30/01/15
Posts: 26
Loc: United kingdom
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: tinker]
      #348412 - 24/12/20 08:33 AM

That is good shooting looks as though you have solved the puzzle. Well done and have fun. Cheers Steve

--------------------
Steve

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joelblack
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Reged: 05/06/12
Posts: 61
Loc: WI, USA
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: Rookandrabbit]
      #348414 - 24/12/20 09:02 AM

As you know, rook rifles have been one of my sicknesses for many years. This is an olio of various types.

This is a typical British side lever rook rifle;



This is a Greener Martini rook rifle



This is a very rare miniature Fraser rook rifle



This is an Alexander Henry rook rifle



Best of all this is a double Rook rifle

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Rookandrabbit
.224 member


Reged: 30/01/15
Posts: 26
Loc: United kingdom
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: joelblack]
      #348415 - 24/12/20 09:38 AM

Wow Joel a double! Only ever recall one being for sale at Holts in the Uk! Stunning collection. Is that a take down 310 sharpshooter!? Some cracking makers there ? RARE is an understatement Thank you for posting! Cheers Steve

--------------------
Steve

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Rookandrabbit
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Reged: 30/01/15
Posts: 26
Loc: United kingdom
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: Rookandrabbit]
      #348416 - 24/12/20 09:41 AM

Between Buckstix and Joel I can see where all the rare ones are hiding. Cheers Steve

--------------------
Steve

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joelblack
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Reged: 05/06/12
Posts: 61
Loc: WI, USA
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: Rookandrabbit]
      #348418 - 24/12/20 11:37 AM

What's really strange is that both of us are in Wisconsin and when Tom Rowe was taking pictures of rook rifle for Wal Winfer's rook rifles book he just visited 4 collectors here.

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1111
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: joelblack]
      #348420 - 24/12/20 01:16 PM

Quote:

What's really strange is that both of us are in Wisconsin and when Tom Rowe was taking pictures of rook rifle for Wal Winfer's rook rifles book he just visited 4 collectors here.


Hello Joelblack,
Thanks for the reply.

Too bad he didn't stop here. I have about a haf-a-dozen.

A little off the subject of my 300 Long Shot, but your 310 Greener Take-down is in much, much, better condition than my 310 "Sharpshooter Club Mark I". But I think mine is older. It has the bottom button take-down, instead of the side-lever.























--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26498
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: buckstix]
      #348441 - 25/12/20 04:38 AM

1,288fps av. I am impressed. Well done buckstix.
Good shooting, too. Looks like the old girl can sing.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3985
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: DarylS]
      #348450 - 25/12/20 08:57 AM

Quote:

1,288fps av. I am impressed. Well done buckstix.
Good shooting, too. Looks like the old girl can sing.


Not wrong there Daryl - no wonder Buckstix is grinning like a Cheshire cat!
SD of 6fps......now that is something to sing about!
Well done indeed mate

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1111
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: 93x64mm]
      #348455 - 25/12/20 11:43 AM

Quote:

1,288fps av. I am impressed. Well done buckstix.
Good shooting, too. Looks like the old girl can sing.


Hello Daryl_S
Thanks for the reply.

The 1288 fps was measures at 50 ft. instead of the 15 ft normally used. Our indoor range has florescent lights overhead except for at the target, where there are quartz-halogen lamps overhead. Chronographs won't work with florescent lights, but will work with quartz-halogen, so I have to place the Chronograph all the way down in front of the target.

Actual muzzle velocity was 1300 fps.

Quote:

Not wrong there Daryl - no wonder Buckstix is grinning like a Cheshire cat!
SD of 6fps......now that is something to sing about!
Well done indeed mate


Hello 93x64mm,
Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I'm still grinning - 2 days later.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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joelblack
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Reged: 05/06/12
Posts: 61
Loc: WI, USA
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: buckstix]
      #348487 - 26/12/20 10:42 AM

That's the only 310 Greener Club I've seen all the rest have been .22s like this one.

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Ahmed577
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Reged: 13/06/13
Posts: 327
Loc: Western Australia
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: joelblack]
      #348492 - 26/12/20 07:02 PM

I have 3 Rooks. A single and double in 297/250 and a single in 22 hornet. They probably give the most pleasure of any of my guns. I am surprised more are not ordered new. Australia has very few good rook rifles.

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buckstix
.400 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1111
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: Ahmed577]
      #348494 - 26/12/20 09:47 PM

Quote:

I have 3 Rooks. A single and double in 297/250 and a single in 22 hornet. They probably give the most pleasure of any of my guns. I am surprised more are not ordered new. Australia has very few good rook rifles.


Hello Ahmed577,
Thanks for your reply.

I actually have 8 Rook rifles. 360 No.5 - 300 LS - 300 Sherwood - 300 Rook - 297-250 Rook - 297 L2 - and (2) in 297-230

I love shooting them all. I have tons of custom brass for the 297-230 and have been able to supply a lot of shooters with this hard to find brass.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: A Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Side-Lever 300 Long Shot cal [Re: buckstix]
      #383857 - 02/04/24 01:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I have 3 Rooks. A single and double in 297/250 and a single in 22 hornet. They probably give the most pleasure of any of my guns. I am surprised more are not ordered new. Australia has very few good rook rifles.


Hello Ahmed577,
Thanks for your reply.

I actually have 8 Rook rifles. 360 No.5 - 300 LS - 300 Sherwood - 300 Rook - 297-250 Rook - 297 L2 - and (2) in 297-230

I love shooting them all. I have tons of custom brass for the 297-230 and have been able to supply a lot of shooters with this hard to find brass.



Wow. So there is actually both a .297/250 and a .297/230.

The chambering engraving on my riflebis very hard to read. I've actually changed the registration from .230 to .250, but what is it really?

What brass is the basis for either chambering, .250 and .230?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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