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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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Huvius
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3185
Loc: Colorado
Re: 8 Bore "Clobber Pipe".... [Re: AK_Stick]
      #346785 - 13/11/20 03:05 AM

Quote:

The problem was they had no stock larger than 1 inch, and the 8 bore requires 1.025 (atleast mine and most of the ones I’ve seen do). They also cut my rims undersized, which allowed the cartridge to set back against the breech under recoil of the other barrel, which is what caused mine to double. Not an experience I wish to duplicate.




I could see that may happen with a non-rebounding hammer gun with the other hammer down.

The brass maker could have hammer forged their blanks to enlarge the base prior to machining. Wouldn't have been difficult.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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AK_Stick
.224 member


Reged: 28/07/19
Posts: 9
Loc: Alaska
Re: 8 Bore "Clobber Pipe".... [Re: Huvius]
      #346794 - 13/11/20 07:12 AM

My other hammer was still secured by the stalking safety. The primer itself flattened on the breech face.


I agree there are things that could have been done. The bras was good quality, If they have stock of appropriate size I would not be against it. But personally, I can’t find a reason not to use RCC for any future brass given my utter satisfaction with their product.


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3DogMike
.375 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 574
Loc: Colorado USA
Re: 8 Bore "Clobber Pipe".... [Re: AK_Stick]
      #346795 - 13/11/20 08:03 AM

That’s one for the books for sure. Were they 209 type shotgun primers or standard large rifle primers?
- Mike

--------------------
“On the Western Slope of Colorado, USA"
&
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon


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Daryl_S
.600 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 21647
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 8 Bore "Clobber Pipe".... [Re: 3DogMike]
      #346797 - 13/11/20 08:41 AM

I am finding it difficult to understand how the second barrel could discharge without having a firing pin strike.

Perhaps a very weak firing pin return spring, or no spring, allowed the pin under recoil, to slam forwards striking that primer? A loose pin?

Is this the ultimate reason (doubling) for the change to rebounding firing pins?

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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3DogMike
.375 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 574
Loc: Colorado USA
Re: 8 Bore "Clobber Pipe".... [Re: Daryl_S]
      #346798 - 13/11/20 10:26 AM

Quote:

I am finding it difficult to understand how the second barrel could discharge without having a firing pin strike.
Perhaps a very weak firing pin return spring, or no spring, allowed the pin under recoil, to slam forwards striking that primer? A loose pin?
Is this the ultimate reason (doubling) for the change to rebounding firing pins?




My personal guess is that rebounding locks became the solution to:
1) having to 1/2 cock before opening the rifle/gun
2) eliminated the need for 1/2 cock and stalking safeties.

The answer is lost to the mists of time..
- Mike

--------------------
“On the Western Slope of Colorado, USA"
&
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon


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Daryl_S
.600 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 21647
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 8 Bore "Clobber Pipe".... [Re: 3DogMike]
      #346802 - 13/11/20 12:23 PM

Yes, of course.
That makes sense.


--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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tinkerModerator
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4388
Loc: Nevada
Re: 8 Bore "Clobber Pipe".... [Re: AK_Stick]
      #346803 - 13/11/20 01:02 PM

This really is a great looking rifle.


We need video!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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3DogMike
.375 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 574
Loc: Colorado USA
Re: 8 Bore "Clobber Pipe".... [Re: tinker]
      #346806 - 13/11/20 01:51 PM

Quote:

This really is a great looking rifle.
We need video!



Well thankyou.....i consider your input quite a compliment. Yes, whomever in the UK did the restoration, it is a very nice job of it.

The rifle has a couple minor issues to sort out over the Winter; nothing major.
RMC is finishing my brass and I have the ball mould from Tanner in hand.

Video? As in a scrawny 68 year old getting thumped by 10 Drams and a 970 grain ball? .......light my forest on fire?.......damn; “Thankyou Sir, may I have another!”

If, next Spring, I can find a buddy to video I will do it!
- Mike

--------------------
“On the Western Slope of Colorado, USA"
&
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon


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Daryl_S
.600 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 21647
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 8 Bore "Clobber Pipe".... [Re: 3DogMike]
      #346807 - 13/11/20 02:30 PM

Come on up here with it and I'll do the video, Mike.
Is that a conical ball gun, or a round ball gun?
Was interested due to the 90" rate of twist. Of course
that would be akin to a 72" to 78" twist in a little 24 bore.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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3DogMike
.375 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 574
Loc: Colorado USA
Re: 8 Bore "Clobber Pipe".... [Re: Daryl_S]
      #346808 - 13/11/20 02:46 PM

Hi Daryl,
I’m guessing it’s a round ball rifle due to the ~1-90 twist and roughly 1880 date.

Come on up? I’d love to......except, has not your beloved PM Turdeaux and P.Q. oriented Politicians made 8 Bores illegal?
...anti tank or anti aircraft weapons don’t you know.....

So.......You had best come on down to the “Peoples Republic of Colorado” to do a video.
Have guest room, 3 drooling Labradors, and several different Single Malt Whisky selections.
-Mike

--------------------
“On the Western Slope of Colorado, USA"
&
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon


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tinkerModerator
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4388
Loc: Nevada
Re: 8 Bore "Clobber Pipe".... [Re: 3DogMike]
      #346830 - 14/11/20 01:12 AM

Quote:

Quote:

This really is a great looking rifle.
We need video!




Video? As in a scrawny 68 year old getting thumped by 10 Drams and a 970 grain ball? .......light my forest on fire?.....





Absolutely..!!!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Daryl_S
.600 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 21647
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 8 Bore "Clobber Pipe".... [Re: tinker]
      #346832 - 14/11/20 04:21 AM

LOL - you are absolutely right, Mike. As I don't have any artillery pieces (included 8 bores of course) I'd forgotten about that dip's May 1st move.
I would love to visit.
BTW - keep in mind the patched ball loads I used in brass cases in my 16 bore straight rifled gun.
They shot cleanly and accurately. IIRC, I used Neetsfoot oil for lube on the patches, with 1/8" hard card wads underneath to the powder.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 641
Loc: West UK
Re: 8 Bore "Clobber Pipe".... [Re: Daryl_S]
      #346839 - 14/11/20 10:53 AM


My personal guess is that rebounding locks became the solution to:
1) having to 1/2 cock before opening the rifle/gun
2) eliminated the need for 1/2 cock and stalking safeties.

The answer is lost to the mists of time..

That was always my opinion although I have a .450/400 with non-rebounding locks without a half cock

TH44


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AK_Stick
.224 member


Reged: 28/07/19
Posts: 9
Loc: Alaska
Re: 8 Bore "Clobber Pipe".... [Re: Daryl_S]
      #346864 - 15/11/20 11:14 AM

Quote:

I am finding it difficult to understand how the second barrel could discharge without having a firing pin strike.

Perhaps a very weak firing pin return spring, or no spring, allowed the pin under recoil, to slam forwards striking that primer? A loose pin?

Is this the ultimate reason (doubling) for the change to rebounding firing pins?




The gap in the rim thickness and the breech face allowed the cartridge to get a running start into the breech when I fired, and because the primers I was using had very little recess on the face of the primer, when it struck the breech face, it flattened just enough to detonate the primer.


Since then, with the RCC brass I’ve fired the 8 nearly 200 times this summer getting ready to hunt with it this fall, and that was the only double I’ve suffered.


It’s worth noting that when it doubled, I was firing a 1250 grain conical, not my 880 grain ball, so it’s possible the extra recoil of the conical had something to do with the double, and not just the RMC brass.


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3DogMike
.375 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 574
Loc: Colorado USA
Re: 8 Bore "Clobber Pipe".... [Re: AK_Stick]
      #346865 - 15/11/20 12:21 PM

“....allowed the cartridge to get a running start into.....struck the breech face...”

Maybe I’m too thick to truly understand, but the physics involved in firing a double rifle do not lend themselves to a case slamming into the breech face and impacting a high primer.
Quite the opposite, upon recoil the cartridge on the non firing side will slide farther into the chamber to wherever headspace allows and not backwards to the breech face
(Newtons 1st Law: a body at rest...ie: the cartridge; .... and Newtons 3rd Law: equal & opposite reaction and all that.)

.....and...I presume this was a 209 type shotgun primer where the actual cup of the primer is enclosed by the battery cup part?
Unlike a standard large rifle primer it would seem very difficult for a 209 type shotgun primer to “slamfire”....

That your rifle doubled there is no doubt......very weird circumstance.

- Mike

--------------------
“On the Western Slope of Colorado, USA"
&
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon


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