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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

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ducmarc
.400 member


Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 1185
Loc: fla
rising bite
      #345760 - 13/10/20 12:35 PM

i'm somewhat confused about how a rising bite action works is there any drawings or simple explanation of how it works and why its better than others also on a double rifle or shotgun that is loaded which direction should the opening lever be.i have some that are to the right some in the middle and a couple of loose ones that are slightly left.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 31602
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: rising bite [Re: ducmarc]
      #345776 - 13/10/20 06:40 PM

Go wild.

https://www.google.com/search?q=forums.nitroexpress.com%3A+"rising+bite"

https://www.google.com/search?q=forums.n...Q_AUoAXoECAsQAw

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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ducmarc
.400 member


Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 1185
Loc: fla
Re: rising bite [Re: NitroX]
      #345809 - 15/10/20 11:30 AM

cool website, i guess i was too under the influence the other night to make the search button work

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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crshelton
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/15
Posts: 176
Loc: Republic of Texas
Re: rising bite [Re: ducmarc]
      #345963 - 19/10/20 11:16 AM

Ducmarc,
Your topic caught my eye and I looked it up on the Internet and did a bit of reading.
In addition to the history of the rising bite, I learned that it was complex and expensive to build and was eventually replaced by the Dolls Head which was also used on Parker shotguns and other double guns and rifles. Good to know, as you can now skip over the rising bite right on to the Dolls Head!
No moving parts in the DH.

--------------------
CRS,NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/


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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 2853
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: rising bite [Re: crshelton]
      #345969 - 19/10/20 10:42 PM

Well, sure, but the doll's head per se is not a third bite.

The Rigby-Bissell rising bite is.

A third bite is generally considered to strengthen the doll's head or whatever rib extension is used.

One would expect that to be an advantage on double rifles where pressure is significantly higher than shotguns. But having said that, third bites are not uncommon on higher-grade shotguns as well.

...and maybe on more modest-grade guns too of you regard the Greener cross-bolt as a third bite!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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transvaal
.300 member


Reged: 19/01/13
Posts: 105
Loc: South Carolina
Re: rising bite [Re: Marrakai]
      #346016 - 21/10/20 06:30 AM

Quote:

Well, sure, but the doll's head per se is not a third bite.

The Rigby-Bissell rising bite is.

A third bite is generally considered to strengthen the doll's head or whatever rib extension is used.

One would expect that to be an advantage on double rifles where pressure is significantly higher than shotguns. But having said that, third bites are not uncommon on higher-grade shotguns as well.

...and maybe on more modest-grade guns too of you regard the Greener cross-bolt as a third bite!




Marrakia; I agree with your per se statement. "Dolls heads" without a method of holding them fastened in place such as the famous Westley Richards extension, are only providing a method to hold the the barrels to the face of the action and reducing flex of the action upon firing--not a fastener (or bite) to my mind.

The Westley Richards, the Scott screw grip and the Rigby rising bite are always good discussion topics of which makes the strongest double rifle action. I tend to agree with the late English gunsmith Jack Rowe of Enid, Oklahoma that the screw grip was likely the strongest double rifle action ever built in the UK.

I would like to know what our expert member Mark Mitchell--AKA Pugwash, double rifle maker in Scotland thinks about what is the strongest of the British double rifle actions, as well as what he thinks about what I write below.

My contention is that a "third bite", "rising bite" or whatever other bite should be able to hold the action closed during firing even if there were no other bites (such as the Purdey locking bolt engaged in the two barrel lumps slots) on the gun or rifle--although in most cases the Purdey bolt only holds the rear lump slot with spring tension, the front slot being used as a guide slot. I would like to know if a Rigby rising bite can do that--hold the barrels closed during firing. If it cannot it should it really be called a bite. I have had no experience with a Rigby rising bite to really know if it is a real bite or just a self adjusting for wear type of dolls head. I have always wondered about this subject and I am pleased that you brought it up.

Thanks for your indulgence.

Stephen

Edited by transvaal (21/10/20 01:29 PM)


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 2853
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: rising bite [Re: transvaal]
      #346033 - 21/10/20 09:38 PM

Quote:

I would like to know if a Rigby rising bite can do that--hold the barrels closed.



transvaal:
There is no way a double gun with the Rigby-Bissell rising bite, sans under-bolt, could be opened without operating the top-lever. Its a real bite alright!

Not guaranteeing the rising bite alone could cope with the pressure of firing, but I strongly suspect it would. Same with most other third bites.

I do agree that the screw-grip is unquestionably the strongest, due in part to the Webley "A&W C" long-bar action that featured it, but cross-bolts can be built strongly too.

...and don't forget the Westley Richards C-bolt guns that were built without any under-bolting whatsoever. What we might regard today as a doll's head with third bite was in fact the first and only bite in that case!

Action strength is all relative anyway:
I have a Rigby rising-bite double, a Webley screw-grip .577, a bunch of cross-bolted doubles (mostly Greeners but a couple of Cashmores and a few others), a Jeffery double with third bite on the dolls-head, even a Dougal lock-fast. And plenty with nothing more than the Purdey under-bolt. They were all strong enough to pass proof and all still lock up tight today, in some cases more than a century later.

And that is simply marvellous!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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transvaal
.300 member


Reged: 19/01/13
Posts: 105
Loc: South Carolina
Re: rising bite [Re: Marrakai]
      #346052 - 22/10/20 04:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:







...and don't forget the Westley Richards C-bolt guns that were built without any under-bolting whatsoever. What we might regard today as a doll's head with third bite was in fact the first and only bite in that case!


Marrakai;

Thanks for your observations on the Rigby rising bite.

No, I have not forgotten about the WR guns that were built without a under locking bolt, and that fact helped precipitate my comment about Pugwash because formerly he was shop foreman at WR I would be interested in his opinion on the strength of the WR verses the Scott screw grip.

You have an interesting battery of fine double rifles. I envy you.

Stephen

Edited by transvaal (22/10/20 10:34 AM)


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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 2853
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: rising bite [Re: transvaal]
      #346064 - 22/10/20 03:06 PM

Double rifles and SxS shotguns, transvaal.
Wish they were all DRs....
Would love a vintage Rigby rising-bite side-lock .470, but who wouldn't!
Had one in my gun-safe for a short while many years ago, fabulous thing! Belonged to 500Nitro from Melbourne at the time.

Not sure where that rifle is now. Anyone know?

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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