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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns

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casper50
.375 member


Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 943
Loc: Alaska
Received my cape gun today.
      #344773 - 04/09/20 05:55 AM

12ga x ? Trying to narrow down the search for the rifle caliber. Nothing in my copy of The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions. quite fit. Closest is the 11.15x36R Werndl carbine. Dimensions of the cast follow.
Length of case = 1.41

Cal = .43

neck of case = .457

base of case just above the rim = .475

rim thickness is .073

rim diameter is .535

Any and all help greatly appreciated.









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93x64mm
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: casper50]
      #344777 - 04/09/20 10:16 PM

Interesting case size Casper - never heard of that calibre either at .439".
Certainly no stopper, but would be able to do a fair old job on deer sized game, being bigger overall than a .44Mag!


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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
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Loc: Alaska
Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: 93x64mm]
      #344778 - 05/09/20 12:44 AM

Someone on another forum suggested 450 #1 Carbine. Photo looks good as does the length. But I don't have any other dimensions at the moment.

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lancaster
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: casper50]
      #344793 - 05/09/20 02:28 PM

its possible they just ream a conical chamber for a case with shoulder, "oversized" chambers were not unusual in the 19.century. it would help a little bit if you give the origin of the gun also lands and grove diameter.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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TH44
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: lancaster]
      #344814 - 06/09/20 08:22 AM

Plus one for Lancaster, pics please!

TH44


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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
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Loc: Alaska
Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: TH44]
      #345399 - 28/09/20 03:04 AM

here's some photos. Cast has no shoulder so I have no idea what that's about.









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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: casper50]
      #345401 - 28/09/20 03:45 AM

Should have added this one.



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greenshoots
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Reged: 23/05/08
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: casper50]
      #345424 - 28/09/20 07:20 PM

London africa? (east london possibly)

greenshoots


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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: greenshoots]
      #345425 - 28/09/20 07:29 PM

Belgium trying to pass it off as an English firearm. lol The "star, LONDON, and arrow" are silver inlay though.


Edited by casper50 (28/09/20 07:31 PM)


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Tom_H
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 299
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: casper50]
      #345427 - 28/09/20 09:40 PM

Sleeved rifle barrel?

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny


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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: Tom_H]
      #345429 - 28/09/20 11:31 PM

It isn't sleeved it's a cape gun.

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: casper50]
      #345441 - 29/09/20 09:15 AM

Tom: I noticed that too.

Casper:
Bit out-of-focus but muzzle photo in your previous post looks a lot like the rifled barrel has a full-length sleeve.
What looks like the join is visible at the muzzle. In the UK it would be Parker-Rifled.

No suggestion of it having been a SxS shotgun as the left-barrel wall thickness is greater than the right, even without the sleeve.

If it simply has an engraved circle on the face of the rifle barrel's muzzle, then disregard the above!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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casper50
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: Marrakai]
      #345448 - 29/09/20 03:25 PM

No sign of a liner at the breech.


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Marrakai
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: casper50]
      #345449 - 29/09/20 04:59 PM

Maybe just inside the chamber mouth? Would need to measure the diameter of the rim-recess to see if it matches the diameter of the ring visible at the muzzle.

And don't be shy about filing off that burr on the extractor-plate, and check that the firing-pin retracts easily to avoid any damage to its tip.

Fun times ahead!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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greenshoots
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Reged: 23/05/08
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: Marrakai]
      #345450 - 29/09/20 05:57 PM

belguim made plenty of dutch influence in south africa looks to be later sleeved possibly done in east london hence the addition name and decoration looks primitive

greenshoots


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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: greenshoots]
      #345451 - 29/09/20 05:59 PM

I think instead of filing off the burr I'll tap it back into place and smooth it out. Wish I could identify the cartridge. I'd like to get it shooting again.

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Tom_H
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: casper50]
      #345466 - 30/09/20 07:43 AM

This could be an easy one to get shooting.

This really looks like a....

44-40.

The measurements are close enough and it was just an early style chamber. No throat but the rest of the dimensions are correct. Just hope that the groove diameter is .428.
You can always lathe turn bullets an make heel bullets out of them which solves that problem.

Good shooting.

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

Edited by Tom_H (30/09/20 07:44 AM)


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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: Tom_H]
      #345532 - 04/10/20 05:01 AM

Mystery solved. It's chambered to take a 1.4" brass .410 case. Maybe a Husqvarna Model 17? something. I haven't found one that was chambered for .410 in the rifle side or 12 in the shotgun side. Thanks for all the help folks.

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Daryl_S
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: casper50]
      #345534 - 04/10/20 05:07 AM

Glad you found something that will work. Does Buffalo Arms have that brass. They are whom I got my 16 bore brass from - Magtec brass, seems to me.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
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Loc: Alaska
Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: Daryl_S]
      #345538 - 04/10/20 06:26 AM

most that I've looked at are out of stock.

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Daryl_S
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: casper50]
      #345560 - 05/10/20 04:20 AM

I suspect .444 case is too small in dia. I have loaded those for my daughter's .410 shotguns and they did very well indeed.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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greenshoots
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: Daryl_S]
      #345585 - 05/10/20 08:28 PM

.303 brass can be used to make .410

greenshoots


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Daryl_S
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: greenshoots]
      #345592 - 06/10/20 03:16 AM

The base dia. of .457" is a might small, although it would work, but with pregnant looking cases.
The .444's .470" is a bit better, same base dia. as the .410.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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casper50
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: Daryl_S]
      #345623 - 07/10/20 04:33 PM

Fired a few cut down plastic .410 today. No deformation at the base. Can't find any brass cases as of yet. Everyone is out of stock.

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Tom_H
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Re: Received my cape gun today. [Re: casper50]
      #345706 - 11/10/20 03:04 AM

I am surprised that I didn't get any love on my last post.

Length of case = 1.41
Cal = .43
neck of case = .457
base of case just above the rim = .475
rim thickness is .073
rim diameter is .535


Case length 1.305 in (33.1 mm

Bullet diameter .427 in (10.8 mm)
Neck diameter .443 in (11.3 mm)
Shoulder diameter.458 in (11.6 mm)
Base diameter .471 in (12.0 mm)
Rim thickness .065 in (1.7 mm)
Rim diameter .525 in (13.3 mm)

I looked into the .444 and european rimmed .470 base cases but came across the .44-40 as the best fit.
The Belgians could always find a market for a gun. I had a H. Peiper combo marked 38-55 which casted as a 9.3x57R360, obviously for the American market. (yes a .378 will swage into a .363 if there is enough room in the neck)
There are pistol caliber cartridges in combo guns
The only number that is really off is the case length/neck diameter. Could be that way to take care of the lack of a throat and to reduce pressure.

It could also be some esoteric european chambering but the numbers seem too close to the vintage of the gun.

Cheers,

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny


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