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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Handguns
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EDELWEISS
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What makes a Howdah a HOWDAH?
      #344374 - 17/08/20 10:06 PM

Ive read pretty much everything I can find on "Howdah Pistols". I thought I "KNEW", then I see, not all double (multi) barreled pistols are Howdahs and God Forgive, but not any single barrels. Soooooo what makes a Howdah a HOWDAH?

I ask because I recently saw a antique double barreled pistol that I would have called a Howdah; but now Im not so sure. I dont know how to value it. Is it just an antique muzzle loader OR a HOWDAH. What do I look for to judge the difference?

Its a smoothbore percussion about 50 caliber.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: What makes a Howdah a HOWDAH? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #344376 - 17/08/20 11:14 PM

A Howdah is the saddle of an elephant.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: What makes a Howdah a HOWDAH? [Re: NitroX]
      #344377 - 17/08/20 11:21 PM

A Howdah pistol was designed to be fired from a howdah saddle on an elephant. Or a short barrelled rifle or shotgun. Against eg a tiger on the head or tail of the elephant.

IMO short barrelled. Large calibre.Muzzle loading or breech loading. Has hammers. Side by side.

Have no idea where single barrels idea has come from. Or under and over firearms.

Are their actual examples of an under and over handgun used from an elephant from India from early colonial days?

Most of these are coach or gentleman's guns, against banditry, and also usually smaller calibres. Reportedly renaming such an antique as a howdah adds to the auction price. For example the flintlock under and over pistol displayed in the movie "The Ghost and the Darkness" is a gentleman's handgun. Did the gentleman in a howdah plan to use the fold out bayonet to poke the eye of the tiger ?

No doubt some single shots were used from howdahs in the days of yore. Cheaper. And also in the very early days single shots would have been far more common with all sorts of BP muzzle loaders.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: What makes a Howdah a HOWDAH? [Re: NitroX]
      #344378 - 17/08/20 11:32 PM

It would be interesting to know when the term "howdah pistol" was first used or recorded?

Is it a modern term, used for auction sales?

Did the makers of such handguns call them Howdah guns?

Any books refer to a howdah pistol? ie books written in colonial times?

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EDELWEISS
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Re: What makes a Howdah a HOWDAH? [Re: NitroX]
      #344380 - 18/08/20 02:40 AM

Thanks, you pretty much confirmed my thoughts; although having just watched "Ghost..." I can confirm it was percussion not flintlock. Yeah the folding bayonet did make me scratch my head to its true link to a purpose built Howdah pistol.

That being said, Im more of the opinion that few such guns were actually built specifically as Howdah pistols, over say, general self defense guns, that might have been pressed into the Howdah role.

I suspect the later guns (as in well in to the age of cartridge guns), which continued to be built as double/multiple barreled large (really large) caliber guns were likely less for self defense against two legged animals and more for four legged dangers.

Awhile back, I passed on a percussion smooth bore double barrel pistol in 45cal because I thought it too small to be a Howdah. Now Im looking at a 50+ caliber gun and Im feeling the same way and yet Im reminded of a poster repeatedly seen in the X Files TV show with the caption "I want to believe..."

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: What makes a Howdah a HOWDAH? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #344438 - 19/08/20 07:10 PM

One of our members posted on another thread a handgun handgun also has a hook or loop on the bottom of the grip. For hanging in the howdah saddle.

True?

For practical use, I don't know. From riding in howdahs a handgun hung on a loop should knock around, the howdah saddles do swing around a fair amount. Enough to cause a person to slide off a seat if it is too damn polished! Then one must hang on!

If I was hunting from a howdah, I would have a holster strapped or bolted on instead to carry the emergency handgun.

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EDELWEISS
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Re: What makes a Howdah a HOWDAH? [Re: NitroX]
      #344445 - 19/08/20 10:12 PM

Im not opposed to "saddle guns" per se; but I do agree that guns intended for personal protection against man OR beast are best when carried close at hand. Saddle guns or in this case "chair" guns are a nice extra; but I think not the best choice for the first to grab in an emergency, especially when we can assume a tiger climbing up the side of an elephant isnt exactly something that would make the elephant rock steady???

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lancaster
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Re: What makes a Howdah a HOWDAH? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #344491 - 22/08/20 05:21 AM

imho, a real howdah starts with .577
the main characteristic of a howdah is to be bigger than a common sidearm

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Marrakai
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Re: What makes a Howdah a HOWDAH? [Re: lancaster]
      #344497 - 22/08/20 12:38 PM

I wholeheartedly agree that a howdah pistol needs to be a big-bore stopper, and like lancaster I would personally endorse the .577 minimum all day long.

But.....!

The only pistol that I know of (except the Pedersoli) that was actually called a howdah pistol by the maker, the Charles Lancaster 4-barrel pistol, was made in .380, .450 and .455, with .577 Snider as the upper limit!

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EDELWEISS
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Re: What makes a Howdah a HOWDAH? [Re: lancaster]
      #344503 - 22/08/20 09:19 PM

Quote:

imho, a real howdah starts with .577
the main characteristic of a howdah is to be bigger than a common sidearm



GOOD point I like that

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EDELWEISS
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Re: What makes a Howdah a HOWDAH? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #344505 - 22/08/20 09:41 PM

Smoothbore or Rifled? Does it make a difference?

At the intended range, Id be OK with smooth; but should rifling or lack of it make a difference for the definition?

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EDELWEISS
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Re: What makes a Howdah a HOWDAH? [Re: Marrakai]
      #344506 - 22/08/20 09:45 PM

Quote:

I wholeheartedly agree that a howdah pistol needs to be a big-bore stopper, and like lancaster I would personally endorse the .577 minimum all day long.

But.....!

The only pistol that I know of (except the Pedersoli) that was actually called a howdah pistol by the maker, the Charles Lancaster 4-barrel pistol, was made in .380, .450 and .455, with .577 Snider as the upper limit!



Id love to be able to go back in time to ask "380 Howdah? Really? Have you ever seen a Tiger? Up Close? Really?" Palm on forehead...

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Marrakai
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Re: What makes a Howdah a HOWDAH? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #344507 - 22/08/20 10:14 PM

At least you can keep shooting flat-out for 4 pulls of the trigger, instead of 2...!

Lancaster Howdah Pistol

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TH44
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Re: What makes a Howdah a HOWDAH? [Re: Marrakai]
      #344512 - 23/08/20 02:39 AM

I have posted separately on this subject but relative to the Lancaster, IIRC the largest 4 barrelled was .455 (or .476)
Does anyone have an original pic of a Lancaster catalogue? Or any ORIGINALS showing "Howdahs"

Joel Black sent me a detailed article some years ago but my dementia cannot find it!

TH44

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Marrakai
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Re: What makes a Howdah a HOWDAH? [Re: TH44]
      #344518 - 23/08/20 07:13 AM

Although the biggest I've personally seen is the .455, my understanding was that .577 Snider examples were made.
Even Wikipedia includes that calibre listing under its Lancaster Pistol entry.
...but I s'pose its possible the Snider chambering was only available in the 2-barrel version.

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Marrakai
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