Quote:

---

the 577/450 is the most powerful of the old black powder military cartridge, iirc fire a 500 grain bullet with 90 grains blackpowder. allways wonder why it dont get more attention as a hunting cartridge because its a blackpowder express.

---

Interesting the ballistics are given on the net as a 480 gr projectile pushed by either 85 grs of powder for 1315 fps/400 mps velocity.

The US contemporary of the .45/70, 500 grs projectile, 70 grs powder and 1300 fps.

Why is not more velocity achieved for the .577/450 with 15 to 20 grs more powder?

As has been remarked before on these and other forums, we endlessly hear of the 'great killing power' of the .45/70 even on cape buffalo, yet no one hunts with the 'ineffective' and 'sub-powered' .577/450?

Both seem equivalent and certainly useful for hunting medium sized game with reasonable shots.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

My .577/450 "wall hanger", a Rosier Martini-Henry Sporting Rifle from 1875. It was first bought as an antique "wall hanger". I was also looking at a mil Martini-Henry carbine in very good condition. Should have bought BOTH with hindsight. But money ....

Later I decided to register the rifle and see if it could be got shooting. Never have. So it is not a wall hanger now, a safe queen.

One day will shoot it. Maybe hunt something with it. Would be fun to have it shooting.



http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2418&an=&page=0&vc=1

---

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

look for reloading stuff, die set, brass, bullets!

---

True, Was thinking of several projects and first things first. Will start a new thread.

I have some brass. Bought the brass with my .450 brass from Bertrams years ago and both ere the most expensive brass category.

Need dies and bullets and whatever powder is suitable, may or may not have.

New thread, as I have others to get shooting, higher priority.

PS While I am interested, one reason it has not happened is it has never been a priority. Good to be able to shoot. But was bought as a wall hanger. I registered it for political reasons, ie running for the Senate and the risk if police decided it should have been registered.

As for NE, my interest has always been HUNTING. I set up the forums as a safari and and big game international hunting forums. Especially using big bore double rifles. all this other emphasis has come from elsewhere. I like having my main rifles and being able to hunt with them.

In my reloading projects thread, the first two items are actually of more interest, getting all my Mannlichers, Steyrs, Mausers and Combination guns and modern double rifles shooting. Way too many. And the WR 10-bore. As I want to hunt buffalo with it.

Reloading for me is just a means to an end.

The M-H a project to shoot paper with. Maybe some ferals if I am lucky to get a new property somewhere.

But yes, cool to have old vintage rifles shooting. Will need some advice along the way with them.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (14/06/20 12:26 AM)

Post Extras:

Quote:

---

I have a couple 577-450s and a 303. OK Ive seen Zulu and Zulu Dawn a few times too. My plan is to hunt (Wild Boar) with them one day. My gunsmith says they are Ok but not great. He thinks theyd be fine for BP loads. Ive got brass and dies, plus Ive found a guy selling his modern production 577-450 loads.

---

Your Gunsmith is right and wrong. It depends how you are hunting. In a blind or bayed up with digs, I would use a Martini. Stalking or jump shooting, probably not. Out of a helicopter, nope.

I use the Martinis big and small for hunting.







and thousands of round through the little Martini's.

Quote:

---

Ive also got a Citadel short rifle in 303 thats been "bubba'd". The gun looks Ok but the sights are definitely F'd. I think the sights can be fixed or replaced.

---

Quote:

---

Last on my list is a EG Martini action, that I bought as a complete action and Im having built with a new 303 barrel. My plan is for the final rifle to look like a period Gentlemen's sporting gun. I would have done this one in 577-450 but I couldnt find anyone with a reamer for that cartridge.

---

Quote:

---

the 577/450 is the most powerful of the old black powder military cartridge, iirc fire a 500 grain bullet with 90 grains blackpowder. allways wonder why it dont get more attention as a hunting cartridge because its a blackpowder express.

---

Quote:

---

There was a thread on another forum about a bunch of guys in So Afrika, who get together every year for a historic hunt. The guys dress and camp period and hunt period. Between that and an early scene from the movie Zulu where Michael Cain is hunting a leopard with his Martini, Ive been hooked.

I believe the ORIGINAL loading of 577-450 was with an all lead 500 gr bullet. The lighter bullets (480 etc) came with jacketed bullets.

---

Quote:

---

John,
DoubleD is the Martini Guru, if you can get him to chime in it will be more than worth your while & everyone else as well!.
He is a treasure trove of reloading data, cartridge information & frankly everything Martini!

---

Quote:

---

I was about to get my MH running when all the virus crap landed on our doorstep & so am in limbo once again.
My hope is to get out soon with a mate to a property & trial a few different calibers, especially my old martini.
Will let you know how I go.

---

Quote:

---

I think one of the problems with a falling block action and the Martini in particular is it doesn't have much leverage in lowering the breach block, as pressures increase the primer has a tendency to flow into the firing pin hole which will lock up the block.

---

Quote:

---

I have had that problem with a 310 Cadet I have that has been re-barreled to a .218 Mashburn Bee, even though the block has been bushed. I had to use the hardest primer cup I could find to stop the problem.

Bob

---

Quote:

---

Pretty sure it the original loading was 85gr. musket powder and a paper patched 480gr. RN bullet.

---

Quote:

---

The soft bullet will slug up to fit the tubes, which ranged from about .459" to .463" groove dia.
If shooting grooved lubricated lead, one needs an oversize mould most times. They pretty much have to fit the grooves or even being a bit larger is best.

---

That soft bullet won't reach that .464 cylinder section until it has passes 8 inches from the breech end. In the mean time it starts it obturation in a section of smooth barrel at the case mouth that is .5075" and .468" groove when it hits rifling. Dr. Mann studied obturation and how to control it. The problem he discovered was that obturation was not uniform, but rather at times lopsided.



Edited by DoubleD (25/06/20 01:00 AM)

Post Extras: