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Nordmann
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Reged: 05/07/13
Posts: 166
Loc: Denmark
Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: CptCurl]
      #233958 - 10/08/13 10:40 PM

To make an opinion which is totally incorrect is far less admirable on your part. May I ask, on what do you base your opinions and what qualifies you as an expert on anything, let alone price?

This forum is here for enjoyment, to learn, teach and trade ideas......that is correct

But, as an active participant of this forum I get very little enjoyment from reading unqualified and dumbfounded opinions such as yours, especially when relating to "price" or "values" of which you quite obviously have no clue -

In your opinion everything I own is advertised at a price three to four times what the true value should be....how can that be?

For example, I currently have a Holland & Holland Royal deluxe .500/.465 NE double rifle which is as new in the makers case. It has extra quality deluxe engraving with gold inlays. The gun is advertised at $200,000. But based on your opinion, one can buy a Holland and Holland royal deluxe double rifle in 500/465 for between $50k and $66k!

They say that Google is your friend. So if you care to browse the internet you will find that there are approximately 51 high grade double rifles currently advertised for sale by a number of reputable dealers. These include 31 H&H Royals, 8 Purdeys, 9 Rigby's and 3 Westley Richards, (plus a number of round actions which I do not count) and including the 5 guns I have advertised. The total combined value of all these rifles is approx. $8,750,000, therefore an average price of $171,500 (approx.) each. This also includes all the rifles listed as POR because I know all the prices. A number of these are cheaper valued guns because of their caliber, for example .375 so although they are included they reduce the average price considerably.

So based on these "actual" figures, my rifle priced at $200,000 is parr for the course, especially because it is a H&H, large bore, extra finish, deluxe engraved gun with gold inlays and deep chisel engraving. It is most certainly not priced at three to four times its value!

This then brings me back to my mint pair of howdah pistols made by a best London maker priced at $40,000. Recently an inferior pair of Purdey howdah pistols brought £21,000 at a London auction, plus commission. The guns were totally refinished. I have seen a small number of howdah's sold, a few single guns and few pairs (they are rare, and mine being front actioned locks, even rarer), and most if not all of them were inferior to the pair I have advertised, and several of them sold in a similar price range to mine.

Additionally, for you to say that they are not howdah pistols is just as ridiculous as saying they are overpriced.

Everyone is quite rightly entitled to their own opinion, but in this instance your "uneducated" opinion is wrong and based on nothing substantial.

Furthermore, almost everything that I have advertised, I own, that means- I invested a considerable amount of my own cash, and for doing that I deserve to make a fair profit, or a decent return on my investment.

I very much doubt, just by the nature of your stupidity, that you do not have anything invested in anything good, let alone the time it takes to study and understand the market and the fundamentals of business / ie. supply and demand! I say this with an amount of certainty because, to me, if you owned anything great then it would make common sense that you would have a vested interest in maintaining that prices stay high, simply in order to protect your own investment.

You Sir are quite simply a tire kicker, a wanna be, a photo collector, a person who only dreams of owning that which is truly great and wants to invest nothing.

In conclusion, all I can say is this: no one will learn anything from your teachings or ideas on here, so your value to this forum is highly disputable.

Thats my opinion.

--------------------
James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.

Edited by Nordmann (11/08/13 01:01 AM)


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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: Nordmann]
      #233966 - 11/08/13 12:08 AM

I have an interesting story (to me anyway) ! About 10 years ago I wanted to buy a good pair of duelling pistols in their case, After quite a while a pair came up at Sothebys from memory, so I went to look at them, estimate was about 15kGBP if I remember correctly. They were exquisite, almost certainly unfired in their French style case which was also immaculate, I left a reserve bid and went on my way. Then I got a call from Sothebys, the monogrammed oval on the case was initialled and Sothebys had found the pair was made for Napoleans brother !! needless to say I didn´t get them, they were bought by a big museum in France for GBP60k (which if you think about the provenance doesn´t sound too bad). What made me laugh was that I use all my guns so had Sothebys not discovered what they did, I would be hoiking one of those pistols around the country behind the house trying to shoot rabbits with it ! (unsuccesfully of course )

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Oldbrit
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: CptCurl]
      #233967 - 11/08/13 12:09 AM

A member had this at my Club a while ago but sadly all I managed to get was a couple of pictures as he was leaving and no details....





Edited by CptCurl (28/09/13 10:36 PM)


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Oldbrit
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #233968 - 11/08/13 12:11 AM

Quote:

I would be hoiking one of those pistols around the country behind the house trying to shoot rabbits with it ! (unsuccesfully of course )




And of course, not in the UK!!!!


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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: Oldbrit]
      #233970 - 11/08/13 12:26 AM

OldBrit, is it illegal to use a black powder pistol on game in the UK ? best

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #233971 - 11/08/13 12:30 AM

By the way for you guys over the pond if you get the chance go to Hollands in NY and ask to look at the pair of Howdahs they have in their collection, sublime. best

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Huvius
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: jaz]
      #233972 - 11/08/13 12:42 AM

Quote:

Howdah = big money
Travelers or Gentlemans = less money
The features of these are not correct for a true Howdah pistol.




This is what I want to get at. Features.

Surely there is a period catalog somewhere which details the features of what the trade would term a "Howdah Pistol".

On this particular pair, the stalking safeties are much more a feature of Traveler or Officer's pistols.
Not a very useful feature on a Howdah pistol. Really, not a very good feature to have on a Howdah pistol.

Also, note the more diminutive rounded grips. Contrast that to the cartridge Howdah pictured above. Although a later gun, obviously, it displays a definite flair at the grip cap which is a typical feature of a Howdah pistol.

As a last line of defense against a raging Tiger, Howdah pistols are the epitome of the "all that you need and nothing you don't" premise in design.

That is my opinion, and as you say, Nordmann, you can take it or leave it.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

Edited by Huvius (11/08/13 12:54 AM)


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Nordmann
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: Huvius]
      #233973 - 11/08/13 12:55 AM

Mike, I think rabbits can be classed as vermin, not game...especially when they in my veggies.

--------------------
James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.

Edited by Nordmann (11/08/13 12:57 AM)


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Oldbrit
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #233991 - 11/08/13 06:08 AM

Quote:

OldBrit, is it illegal to use a black powder pistol on game in the UK ?




Not strictly illegal but you would need a firearms certificate from the police allowing you to do it. If you can get one then you might just be able to talk the Queen into selling you the crown jewels for fourpence. It's more likely that I will win the National Lottery.... and I don't even buy a ticket.


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DarylS
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: Oldbrit]
      #233995 - 11/08/13 06:54 AM

I thought the Police were there to serve and protect, just like here where they break into houses and steal firearms?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: Oldbrit]
      #233999 - 11/08/13 07:48 AM

Quote:

Quote:

OldBrit, is it illegal to use a black powder pistol on game in the UK ?




Not strictly illegal but you would need a firearms certificate from the police allowing you to do it. If you can get one then you might just be able to talk the Queen into selling you the crown jewels for fourpence. It's more likely that I will win the National Lottery.... and I don't even buy a ticket.




LOL didn´t realise it was that difficult !


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500Nitro
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #234000 - 11/08/13 08:55 AM


Nordmann

Having just read this thread, I would really like to know
why you think the case lid interior is original considering all the points mentioned.

Re your prices and those of others, a big difference seems to exist between asking and getting and I know of a few who have purchased from the likes of top end in the US and what they get is not always the same.

You can ask anything, some that it doesn't matter to might pay it, oil rich arabs for one.

And re "Holland royal deluxe double rifle", I know of one
purchased in the last few years for roughly what you said it couldn't be.


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470evans
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Reged: 30/03/05
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: Nordmann]
      #234004 - 11/08/13 10:18 AM

Quote:

To make an opinion which is totally incorrect is far less admirable on your part. May I ask, on what do you base your opinions and what qualifies you as an expert on anything, let alone price?

This forum is here for enjoyment, to learn, teach and trade ideas......that is correct

But, as an active participant of this forum I get very little enjoyment from reading unqualified and dumbfounded opinions such as yours, especially when relating to "price" or "values" of which you quite obviously have no clue -

In your opinion everything I own is advertised at a price three to four times what the true value should be....how can that be?

For example, I currently have a Holland & Holland Royal deluxe .500/.465 NE double rifle which is as new in the makers case. It has extra quality deluxe engraving with gold inlays. The gun is advertised at $200,000. But based on your opinion, one can buy a Holland and Holland royal deluxe double rifle in 500/465 for between $50k and $66k!

They say that Google is your friend. So if you care to browse the internet you will find that there are approximately 51 high grade double rifles currently advertised for sale by a number of reputable dealers. These include 31 H&H Royals, 8 Purdeys, 9 Rigby's and 3 Westley Richards, (plus a number of round actions which I do not count) and including the 5 guns I have advertised. The total combined value of all these rifles is approx. $8,750,000, therefore an average price of $171,500 (approx.) each. This also includes all the rifles listed as POR because I know all the prices. A number of these are cheaper valued guns because of their caliber, for example .375 so although they are included they reduce the average price considerably.

So based on these "actual" figures, my rifle priced at $200,000 is parr for the course, especially because it is a H&H, large bore, extra finish, deluxe engraved gun with gold inlays and deep chisel engraving. It is most certainly not priced at three to four times its value!

This then brings me back to my mint pair of howdah pistols made by a best London maker priced at $40,000. Recently an inferior pair of Purdey howdah pistols brought £21,000 at a London auction, plus commission. The guns were totally refinished. I have seen a small number of howdah's sold, a few single guns and few pairs (they are rare, and mine being front actioned locks, even rarer), and most if not all of them were inferior to the pair I have advertised, and several of them sold in a similar price range to mine.

Additionally, for you to say that they are not howdah pistols is just as ridiculous as saying they are overpriced.

Everyone is quite rightly entitled to their own opinion, but in this instance your "uneducated" opinion is wrong and based on nothing substantial.

Furthermore, almost everything that I have advertised, I own, that means- I invested a considerable amount of my own cash, and for doing that I deserve to make a fair profit, or a decent return on my investment.

I very much doubt, just by the nature of your stupidity, that you do not have anything invested in anything good, let alone the time it takes to study and understand the market and the fundamentals of business / ie. supply and demand! I say this with an amount of certainty because, to me, if you owned anything great then it would make common sense that you would have a vested interest in maintaining that prices stay high, simply in order to protect your own investment.

You Sir are quite simply a tire kicker, a wanna be, a photo collector, a person who only dreams of owning that which is truly great and wants to invest nothing.

In conclusion, all I can say is this: no one will learn anything from your teachings or ideas on here, so your value to this forum is highly disputable.

Thats my opinion.




This post reminds me of a few posters in years gone by that aren't posting anymore. Have to say that I don't miss them and I won't miss this guy when he tires and moves on. Any knowledgeable person who ignores the overpriced stuff at Barnett's, CSMC and our friend's here will get a much better idea of the real market. And yes, I own three very nice Holland doubles....not that that is required to have good taste.


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DarylS
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: 470evans]
      #234017 - 11/08/13 03:14 PM

Much more eloquent than the post I deleted before clicking on 'continue', 470evans.
Thankyou.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: Nordmann]
      #234023 - 11/08/13 03:59 PM

Glad that tirade was not against Curl's polite comments.

Quote:

This has nothing to do with jealousy. This forum is here for enjoyment, to learn, teach, and trade ideas.If you post something, it is up for discussion, whether it is criticism or praise.




Absolutely. We have a classified adverts forums for buying and selling. For non-commercial sellers (Commercial sellers are generally called 'sponsors' ...) On the classified pages discussion is not generally encouraged other than if seriously interested or if something is very wrong in the advert. On discussion forums polite discussion is encouraged, and if for sale "adverts" are posted on them, seller beware, the items may be questioned.

NE really needs to setup its own specialised "for sale/auction" software ...

Price is the sellers and the buyers business and choices. If it never sells then I guess the seller has got it wrong. Personally I wish for the days when a H&H, WR, top grade DR was available for $3000 to $7000 in Australia - not that long ago - but those days will never return ...

One thing about NE, is the members here are generally more cluey about what is right, wrong and the market. A good place for people to learn all sorts of stuff.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Oldbrit
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: DarylS]
      #234035 - 11/08/13 07:59 PM

Quote:

I thought the Police were there to serve and protect, just like here where they break into houses and steal firearms?




Daryl,

In a jocular manner, you raise an important point. The British police exist to maintain the Queen's peace, they have no absolute duty to protect any individual one of Her subjects. If they did and you got hit over the head with a brick, then you could sue them for dereliction of duty - but you can't.

This gives the lie to the claim you so often hear in the UK, that you have no need of the means of self-protection because the police are there to do that for you. It's just not true and discussion of the feasibility of that argument (i.e. the impossibility of having your own personal policeman with you all the time) is a side issue.

In evidence for what I say, I offer up the London Riots where the police pursued a policy of containment rather than protection of individuals. (At least that's what they said.)

(P.S. I'm trying to ignore the battle of words going on in this subject. Sometimes these things happen in forums but they are a right pain in the fundament.)


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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: Oldbrit]
      #234036 - 11/08/13 09:29 PM

"(P.S. I'm trying to ignore the battle of words going on in this subject. Sometimes these things happen in forums but they are a right pain in the fundament.)"

Fundament ! a word I haven´t heard in a very long time


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Nordmann
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #234037 - 11/08/13 09:58 PM

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win”, Gandhi

--------------------
James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.


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oldcolonel
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Reged: 11/04/13
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Loc: Kansas
Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: Nordmann]
      #234154 - 13/08/13 12:26 PM

Quote:

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win”, Gandhi




The exchange of thoughts to include arguments with the expansion of our community knowledge is what this board is about. Winning here is the expansion of knowledge and the exchange of informed opinion.

I would hope rather than attacking one another personally we would all stay on the polite argument of ideas. I doubt the quality/quantity of one's arsenal is proof of correctness; while it is true it may in indicate some knowledge. That knowledge is no more guaranteed to more be prefect than a well read member who has fewer or lesser guns.

On shotguns I could argue that that my huge in depth library which I have read and reread grants me greater knowledge than the owner of the largest and most expensive collection, but age has taught me I have been wrong before and will be again. Further doubleguns are both science and art and every rule seems to be successfully violated at one time or another by someone. I claim no expertise on howdah guns; I do claim some on manners.

Gentlemen, let us be just that, gentlemen, and positively go forward and argue opinions and dispense with attacks against persons

--------------------
old colonel, topeka kansas


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jaz
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: oldcolonel]
      #235584 - 13/09/13 11:01 AM

Colonel - agreed
Let my 8 year reputation on this site stand on its own.
Photo Collector


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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: jaz]
      #239569 - 20/12/13 04:41 AM

Sold at auction for $15K including buyer's premium...

So much for them being worth $40K, eh Nordmann?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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500Nitro
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: Huvius]
      #239571 - 20/12/13 04:53 AM


Talking of high prices, I don't see many of the high priced DR's moving in the US, they all still seem to be listed.


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Nordmann
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Loc: Denmark
Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: 500Nitro]
      #239595 - 20/12/13 09:45 AM

Huvius...I sold them 6 months ago and got my asking price.

How do you know that I wasn't the buyer at $15K?

--------------------
James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: Nordmann]
      #239621 - 21/12/13 12:31 AM

Quote:

Huvius...I sold them 6 months ago and got my asking price.

How do you know that I wasn't the buyer at $15K?




So they were sold for $40k before your first post on 12 July 2013 when this discussion began and before your rant about Jaz and others knowing nothing?

Interesting.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Cased pair of Howdah pistols [Re: CptCurl]
      #341667 - 03/06/20 10:27 PM

Tags: "Howdah"

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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