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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London.
      #340903 - 10/05/20 12:51 AM

I guess I have become a Cog owner...LOL

I found this gun here in Denmark along with some others.

Original all the way. Lots of casecolors than what the pictures show. Mint bore.

27 inch barrel, backaction, rebounding hammers, Jones underlever and dollshead. What more could one want?.

The serie number along with proofs show the gun was made before 1887.

I can mot say yet whether its a 3" or a 3¼" chamber. But it'll come.










Edited by rigbymauser (10/05/20 12:59 AM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27009
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #340904 - 10/05/20 01:13 AM

That looks really nice, saying "SHOOT ME".

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: DarylS]
      #340906 - 10/05/20 01:27 AM

Thanks Daryl.

Its a rare duck in these parts of the world.

The .500ex caliber seems to be the ".375 HH" of the victorian times. I have a few articals where hunters bring these guns back to modern day safari and bring down buffalo with 'em...a 440grain lead plug @ 1800 ft/sec is still dangerous for most 4 legged beast.

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1465
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #340908 - 10/05/20 02:29 AM

That is a very nice clean example, those bores look about "as new".....you will be all set for Tiger and Asian Gaur!
The 440 grain bullet (cast 1:16) NfB load out of my .500 3" Ingram will shoot through a 1/4" mild steel plate......

The gunroom at Cogswell & Harrison are very happy to search their records and give you details. (for a price of course)
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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TH44
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Reged: 21/02/09
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #340931 - 10/05/20 07:28 AM

Hi Jens
Another excellent rifle!

Love the percussion style fences

The high hammers would lead towards 1870s+ but rebounding locks a little later

The .500 express at that time was more likely to be for India, Africa tending to be a little later or larger bores for dangerous game and the .450s for thin skinned game

I sold my only .500 double some time ago and only have a single shot in that calibre now

There are two on Gunstar but neither appeals especially now would have to be bought unseen but could be tempted! except for the cash spent on the .450 - 3 1/4" Lancaster q.v.

Good that you got it locally, range reports expected as soon as coronavirus allows!

Good luck shooting and thanks for showing

Tony

Edited by TH44 (10/05/20 07:31 AM)

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: TH44]
      #340955 - 11/05/20 12:12 AM

Very nice!

We have handgun hunters usind .500/440 bullets at about 1400fps taking Cape Buffalo, Asian Buffalo, and many other large bovine game.
Very effective.

I look forward to seeing your range report.



Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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poprivit
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Reged: 09/04/07
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Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: tinker]
      #340957 - 11/05/20 12:33 AM

Tinker's correct. I've taken a stink bull giraffe and a lion with my S&W 500 using 440-grain hardhats bullets at 1350 fps.

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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: poprivit]
      #345217 - 20/09/20 11:14 PM

Finally got the rifle home.

The rifle has 28" barrels.
The chambers are 3".
Twist is 1:41.
Weight is 3,95kg or 8,70 ibs.

I have ordered a 430grain mold and a 380grain mold in .506"

I went shooting some 440grain grainers here yesterday which regulates perfect in my friends H&H .500 3" express but was "ok" in mine but left room for improvement.

As I read in the older gunbooks of the 1880s period the.500ex 3" was a 5drammer regulated for the 360grain express Hollowpoints. I think the twistratio also dictates a lighter weight bullet.

The funny thing on this gun that it says nothing on what caliber except for "39". When 3inch and 3 1/4" ammunition was available at that time they could atleast have helped the sportsman to inscribe the type of ammunition the gun was made for. H&H was just about always kind to put it on their guns.

Edited by rigbymauser (20/09/20 11:18 PM)

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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #345218 - 20/09/20 11:51 PM

Here a comparison with a H&H.500express made in 1884

The Cogswell & Harrison was a slight larger dimensionwise than the H&H. A little thicker chamberwalls, wider breech.

When saying all these were made in Birmingham might be true but definatly by different people or companies. If one see the images the lumbs , locking and foreends differ.






Marking in the forend of the Cogswell





Edited by rigbymauser (20/09/20 11:56 PM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27009
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #345220 - 21/09/20 02:54 AM

Nice- when I saw the 41" rate of twist, immediate thought was that the lighter bullet should shoot better and likely regulated for something in that weight rage.
Reading on, I noted the 360gr. HP statement.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1465
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: DarylS]
      #345229 - 21/09/20 06:42 AM

.500's for Black Powder were typically 340 grain hollow nose or 380 grain solid. I did read somewhere that Westley-Richards even had some that used as light as 300 grain hollow nose.

Holland and Holland did build .500 BP Express rifles meant for 440 grain bullets........ heavier than "standard". This could account for your friends H&H shooting well with the 440 grain bullets.

My Charles Ingram and James Burrow .500 3" Express rifles regulate well with a 440 grain bullet when using "Nitro for Black" loads as in Graeme Wright's book. (not so much with black powder). The Ingram does well with paper patch or grease groove bullets.....The Burrow only likes grease groove bullets.

- Mike

Capt Curl link to Roscoe Stephenson copy of Ross Seyfried "Handloader" article on loading for the .500 Express:
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post317748

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: 3DogMike]
      #345548 - 05/10/20 02:32 AM

Thanks Mike.

I slugged the bore here the other day and then measured the max diameter.
The max diameter was .512inch.


I have ordered an express bulletmold at Steve Brooks. He does a wonders when looking for a mold that does an authentic profile.
The center one have I ordered with a gascheck. Iasked for 370-380grain in solid and 350grain in hollowpoint in .512inch diameter.

I would like to try to have a hollowpoint mold where the cavity has the profile of the .22short case so the rim goes flush with the meplat. The would add high cool factor.



Edited by rigbymauser (05/10/20 02:43 AM)

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tinker
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #345551 - 05/10/20 02:56 AM

Definitely cool factor!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27009
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: tinker]
      #345552 - 05/10/20 03:25 AM

Yes - for a copper tube bullet, to slow expansion some. It would need a stepped plunger pin & quite a meplat on the nose.
It would be more doable if you had a die to straighten out the .22 Short cases to remove the rim.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: DarylS]
      #345556 - 05/10/20 04:11 AM

Hey Daryl.

I guess you`re right...unless I want ignition on impact...:LOL.

I read somewhere the old Gould bullet .457cal 330grain(or was it the.50ex WCF) had a cavity where a .22short cartridge could be inserted.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #345559 - 05/10/20 04:18 AM

My mould of that bullet (#457122 I think) has way too small a hole for a .22 case.
Might have been the .50 WCF mould. That one I don't have.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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85lc
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Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1031
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: DarylS]
      #345569 - 05/10/20 08:28 AM

Back in the 1960s, Dixie sold a .577" minie that had a nose cavity that would tale a 22 blank.

--------------------
RB

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: 85lc]
      #345573 - 05/10/20 11:57 AM

Back in the 70's I had a Remington sold Italian Zouave .58 for which I bored the noses of the minnies out on. My 505gr. mould cast oversize, right at .580", so I modified the plunger and made them almost solid with a very short thick skirt. They came out at 600gr.+ - I do not remember exactly. I would bore out the noses, roughly 3/8" and 3/8" deep, then fill the cavity with a compound of 5 parts Potassium Clorate, I part sublimed (flour of)sulphur, 1 part ground up briquettes. Mixed in a slurry, then dried.
Anyway, sealed over with beeswax and very carefully loaded, 3 shots would cut off a 12" aspen(poplar).

After I found out (from a chemist) if mixed in a slurry, that formula became very sensitive to detonating for seemingly no reason, I quit using it. Apparently if not mixed in a slurry it is more stable. I quit it's use and did not test that.
Apparently the formula was made illegal in Great Britain in 1898 due to it's instability, however, for years that formula was used in pill locks and tube locks as simple percussion, resulting in compression would set it off.

Good stuff, maybe not.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3595
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: DarylS]
      #345581 - 05/10/20 01:04 PM

The problem I see with this otherwise interesting concept is that one cannot test that G-force will not detonate the compound without putting ones barrel at risk!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: Marrakai]
      #345588 - 06/10/20 01:05 AM

A hollowpoint that will fit a shotgunprimer would also do...

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DarylS
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: Marrakai]
      #345591 - 06/10/20 03:08 AM

Quote:

The problem I see with this otherwise interesting concept is that one cannot test that G-force will not detonate the compound without putting ones barrel at risk!



Yes - that is why I stopped using that compound, Marrakai. Too, it was noted that even a change in temperature might set it off. Perhaps that was going a bit far, but it was quite energetic.
A chunk the size of a "split" pea on the anvil of my 5" bench vice, would throw the hammer up over shoulder height.
The chemist noted that my use of flour of sulphur(sublimed) not ground sulphur as well as ground briquets instead of the called-for charcoal would also have added some chemicals and refinement which could also alter the compound's stability problems, either way.
The compound was also very corrosive as I used it in the tap-o-caps (aluminum home made percussion caps? on the ML. The cap flash actually pitted the barrel around the nipple drum and barrel of the rifle barrel I used the caps on. They were really good hot caps, too. Never had a miss-fire with them. I always cleaned the barrel the day it was used, as well. That chlorate is very corrosive.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: DarylS]
      #346216 - 27/10/20 02:54 AM

Steve Brook has made a copy of a HP 340grain of the 1880s I found in a book.
At 1900 ft/sec It`LL be a blaster on smaller deer..



Edited by rigbymauser (27/10/20 05:21 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #346217 - 27/10/20 03:22 AM

Looks like a good bullet, for sure.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
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Loc: Denmark
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: DarylS]
      #347241 - 28/11/20 12:55 AM




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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #347246 - 28/11/20 04:27 AM

Heck of a hollow point in that one. It would even work well if solid with the fairly large flat point.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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