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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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Longknife
.300 member


Reged: 17/04/08
Posts: 171
Loc: Illinois
Emil Echoldt Suhl
      #339285 - 23/03/20 07:52 AM

Some may call this a shot gun but I believe Emil had other ideas for its use. The 12ga smoothbore barrels have a nice brown Damascus pattern and are 24 3/4 inches long. Upon a closer look you notice that instead of the customary bead front sight Emil fitted a longer, narrow blade type front sight and 7 1/2 inches from the breech he fitted a folding rifle-type sight complete with a silver insert. Looking at the tang there is,,,,a,,, folding rifle-type peep sight. It is completely adjustable for windage and elevation and folds neatly into a recess in the tang. If you take a look at the engraving, one lock is engraved with what appears to be waterfowl and the other lock is engraved with some type of antlered, four legged creatures,,, deer I am sure. It is apparent that Emil meant this to be a multi purpose firearm for all kinds of game!!!!!!

I have shot this with .690 round balls and shortened shotcups in Winchester AA's with 70 and 75 grains of FF. I also tried patching the .690s' and could not tell any difference. Groups were a little high and too far apart so I have loaded same shells with 80 and 85 FF. Hope it groups a little better as the lite 6 3/4 lb gun does tend to kick a fair abount!!!!

PICTURES COMING!!!!!

https://i.ibb.co/w0N50wF/IMG-3616.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/J7Y5cGw/IMG-3614.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/PMj0pX8/IMG-3611.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/5h6HSNf/IMG-3612.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/PNPSmhB/IMG-3624.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/PmD57PT/IMG-3623.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/xqS87XZ/IMG-3622.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/T1F1jQD/IMG-3621.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/Xk8PW7c/IMG-3619.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/BGL7sqq/IMG-3618.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/PGwYLB9/IMG-3617.jpg


Edited by Longknife (23/03/20 09:41 AM)


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MikeRowe
.333 member


Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 435
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: Emil Echoldt Suhl [Re: Longknife]
      #339286 - 23/03/20 09:59 AM

There's a good chance it was originally a ball and shot gun - they certainly are not uncommon.
My experience, with muzzle loaders at least, has been that rifling does not become necessary to shoot round balls until the distance is over 75 yards.
A properly sighted and loaded smooth bore gun is a very versatile tool. Nine out of the last ten deer that ended up in my freezer could have been killed with one.


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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 614
Loc: West UK
Re: Emil Echoldt Suhl [Re: Longknife]
      #339287 - 23/03/20 10:13 AM

Clearly not just a shotgun - the sights alone show that, as well as the engraving

A nice dual purpose smoothbore, all the better that you shoot it

Is there any choke in either barrel? Your use of .690" balls for safety if there is?

Good luck in further shooting

TH44


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Emil Echoldt Suhl [Re: TH44]
      #339289 - 23/03/20 11:44 AM

That is nice, Ed. Increased velocity should reduce the elevation some and might bring the barrels together as well.
Prior to 1900, many farmer in Sweden owned shotguns on the Lefaucheau principal just as this one is.
They used them for birds, farm protection and for the taking of moose.

Shot loads were made up in paper cases and round balls were loaded with black powder in brass cases. The bores were generally 16, but many were in 12 bore as well.
In the late 1890's, the Swedish Government made it illegal to use shotguns for moose shooting, so in response, Husqvarna started rifling one barrel of the standard Lefaucheau actioned shotguns. Some were twisted rifling, but some were straight rifled.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Longknife
.300 member


Reged: 17/04/08
Posts: 171
Loc: Illinois
Re: Emil Echoldt Suhl [Re: Daryl_S]
      #339308 - 24/03/20 01:25 AM

Mike, I've taken several deer with a 20 ga smoothbore ML. That .600 round ball really knocks the wind out of 'em. I am wanting to take a hog or two with a ML or BPCR, got any down that way?

TH44, No choke in either barrel. The bore is a tight 12, mics .725. I started with a .690 In WW because it fits snugly in a shotcup. I can also use a thick lubed patch instead of the shotcup. Cant really tell a difference in grouping with either. After my first test I found I need more velocity to regulate the shots. A heavier ball would travel slower and then need more powder to regulate and I don't want to stress the old girl,,,, OR this old guy!!!!!

Daryl, that interesting, I have run into those straight rifled barrels before. I have a Springer made SXS perc ML in 18 bore with right barrel rifled in a 24 inch twist and left barrel rifled straight

Edited by Longknife (24/03/20 01:27 AM)


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Emil Echoldt Suhl [Re: Longknife]
      #339318 - 24/03/20 06:38 AM

The 16 bore Husky I had, had the right barrel straight rifled and .705" (13bore) groove diameter and chambered exactly the same as the 16 bore smooth and choked left barrel. Thus brass cases in the right barrel, paper or plastic in the left. Both would 'take' 16 bore plastic hulls that I used. It had 2 5/8" chambers, not 2 1/2" and almost perfectly matched the length of standard 16 bore supposedly 2 3/4" Federal hulls.
That's an odd combination on that ML SxS, Ed. Interesting gun indeed - about .64 cal.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Emil Echoldt Suhl [Re: Daryl_S]
      #339408 - 26/03/20 06:50 AM























--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Daryl_S
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 20962
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Re: Emil Echoldt Suhl [Re: lancaster]
      #339410 - 26/03/20 08:57 AM

So nice.
Wear a P.A.S.T. shoulder protector. I have to now, when shooting kickers.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
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Re: Emil Echoldt Suhl [Re: Daryl_S]
      #339554 - 30/03/20 05:51 AM

Its a ball gun alright. Back in the days one could buy 12 gauge ammunition loaded with single ball.
Nice gun🙂🙂

Edited by rigbymauser (30/03/20 05:52 AM)


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Longknife
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Reged: 17/04/08
Posts: 171
Loc: Illinois
Re: Emil Echoldt Suhl [Re: rigbymauser]
      #340213 - 18/04/20 05:24 AM

I tried the 80 and 85 grain .690 loads at 30 yards. The right and left barrels produce individual groups of 3 1/2" but the groups are 5 inches above point of aim and 7 inches apart. The recoil is getting really uncomfortable, although I installed a slip on butt pad. The recoil is causing the trig guard to "bite" my second finger and take the skin off!! I have some .650 balls but I will have to figure out how to get a tighter fit in the shells, and barrels maybe a patch in a cup?,,,,Ed
https://imgur.com/a/jI60e9k
[image]https://imgur.com/a/jI60e9k[/image]

Edited by Longknife (18/04/20 05:39 AM)


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Longknife
.300 member


Reged: 17/04/08
Posts: 171
Loc: Illinois
Re: Emil Echoldt Suhl [Re: Longknife]
      #340371 - 24/04/20 12:46 AM

I tried the 80 and 85 grain .690 loads at 30 yards. The right and left barrels produce individual groups of 3 1/2" but the groups are 5 inches above point of aim and 7 inches apart. The recoil is getting really uncomfortable, although I installed a slip on butt pad. The recoil is causing the trig guard to "bite" my second finger and take the skin off!! I have some .650 balls but I will have to figure out how to get a tighter fit in the shells, and barrels maybe a patch in a cup?,,,,Ed
https://imgur.com/a/jI60e9k
[image]https://imgur.com/a/jI60e9k[/image]




--------------------
Longknife


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Daryl_S
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Re: Emil Echoldt Suhl [Re: Longknife]
      #340372 - 24/04/20 02:12 AM

If the barrels are diverging, shooting apart, a lighter load might be called for.
I've denim cloth patched balls in brass ctgs. with good results, Ed.
Individual groups are good, though.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Tom_H
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 286
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Emil Echoldt Suhl [Re: Daryl_S]
      #340603 - 01/05/20 01:20 PM

Wow. What a great rig! If I had a double like that I might not bother trying to build one.
Try 65gr.
Out of curiosity, how much does it weigh?

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny


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Longknife
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Reged: 17/04/08
Posts: 171
Loc: Illinois
Re: Emil Echoldt Suhl [Re: Tom_H]
      #340633 - 02/05/20 09:15 AM

Tom, she weighs 6 lb 12 oz,,, A light weight for sure!!!,,,Now,,,If I could get those groups together!!!!!!

Edited by Longknife (02/05/20 09:20 AM)


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Tom_H
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 286
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Emil Echoldt Suhl [Re: Longknife]
      #340637 - 02/05/20 10:43 AM

Wow. That is about perfect. Try the 65gr. That gun will shoot through a deer as far away as you would chance a shot.
It needs to get out in the woods again.

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny


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