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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3475
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Fraser Wanna-be
      #339951 - 09/04/20 08:50 PM

Just finished knocking up a few dozen more reloads for my Fraser .22 K Hornet single-shot falling-block, and realised I had not shared any photos of this little gem with the cognoscenti.

My reluctance is due to the very indifferent reviews that have been posted on the internet over the years. Before flaming me for owning one of these things however, please indulge my explanation.

The rifle was first offered for sale at a good price at one of our Collector Club meetings a few years ago, at which time I declined, in part due to the modified chambering. The seller then moved it on through an internet site, and I watched it sell online.
Done and dusted.

...or so I thought! Visiting the seller a couple of years later brought me face to face with the K-Hornet once again, apparently the sale had fallen through, and I quickly realised there might be a place in my gunsafe for this unusual little rifle after all. Better yet: the price had been adjusted in my favour in the interim! Sold!

The rifle is very slender, serpentine, sporting a long half-octogon, half-round barrel with express sights, and overall weight just over 4 1/2 lbs.



Its not a genuine Fraser at all of course, being made by the respected Italian master-counterfeiters Armi San Marco of Bastogne. Many of these were actually retailed with Dan'l Fraser's Cromarty, Black Isle address on the rib. To see what the Frasers can look like, search Holts London auction March 19, 2015: marvellous stuff!

Here's a shot of the action:





I fitted it with a slim trim Pecar 3-power scope with fine crosshairs, and it has proven itself on the firing line with 11.2gr AR2205 under a 40gr hollow-point. Nice!



The give-away is the butt-plate monogram, unashamedly Armi San Marco, complete with Philips-head screws (!)...



...and the Italian proof marks:



Apparently these rifles were imported into the US by Thad Scott in the 1980s, and when Cape Outfitters folded the last of them were sold as kits to be assembled by the buyer.

Their tarnished reputation was due in part to a high incidence of firing-pin breakage, however fitting the action with a tool-steel or drill-rod replacement pin apparently solved the problem by all accounts. I assume the pin has been replaced in mine, probably when the K-chamber was done, as I have experienced no issues to date.

So far its been a delightful rifle to bang away with on the range, even placing well in our Pot Rifle events at Big Game Rifle Club shoots. I can't wait to get it into the hunting field, although the only suitable quarry in Australia's Top End is the cane toad!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39066
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Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: Marrakai]
      #339952 - 09/04/20 11:29 PM

Quote:


So far its been a delightful rifle to bang away with on the range, even placing well in our Pot Rifle events at Big Game Rifle Club shoots. I can't wait to get it into the hunting field, although the only suitable quarry in Australia's Top End is the cane toad!





I'm no purist. I like it. Would make a lovely and classy rabbit, fox, hare and crow rifle.

I think it would do well on Top End "wild dogs"/dingo, whichever is legal.

Or if you visit, for a mixed wine tasting, gourmet food dinner and rabbit shoot down here one day.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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greenshoots
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Reged: 23/05/08
Posts: 204
Loc: uk
Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: NitroX]
      #339953 - 10/04/20 01:41 AM

if i remember rightly urberti used to make the parts for armi san marco and they just assembled them, have a look for the urberti trade mark

greenshoots


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: greenshoots]
      #339955 - 10/04/20 03:13 AM

I had one of those actions for a while. It was in-the-white, just an action. I couldn't get it working to my satisfaction, between the coil spring and hammer relationship, so I gave it to a gun smith friend of mine. It was supposed to be registered with the long gun registry but was missed somehow. After the Conservatives dumped the registry, I happened across the action in a drawer, worked on it a bit, then gave it to him.
Makes a nice little rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3954
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: DarylS]
      #339962 - 10/04/20 07:40 AM

True it may not be an original Fraser, but hey if you like it Marrakai then frankly who cares!
It certainly would make a grand 'Pot rifle', in the K-Hornet to give it a bit more sting; would be a good wild dog rig.
Certainly would be easy to carry all day mate!


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vykkagur
.300 member


Reged: 28/11/19
Posts: 223
Loc: Canada
Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: 93x64mm]
      #339967 - 10/04/20 10:44 AM

What a handsome rifle! I can't see anyone giving you grief for owning this; it's not as if you were passing it off as something it's not. It's a beautiful design, and as long as the quality is acceptable to you (certainly in keeping with the price, at least), then you should be free to enjoy it at will. It looks great, it's light as a fly rod, and it's a hot little caliber. I know I'd certainly love to own it.

Once again reaffirming your reputation as a man of excellent taste!


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vykkagur
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Reged: 28/11/19
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Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: greenshoots]
      #339969 - 10/04/20 10:56 AM

Quote:

if i remember rightly urberti used to make the parts for armi san marco and they just assembled them, have a look for the urberti trade mark

greenshoots




If Uberti did have some connection with this rifle, it's a shame they didn't take home a sample of it to study before they gagged out the design of their tortured "Courteney Stalking Rifle". The Mortimer Snerd of rifles....


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HuviusModerator
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3518
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Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: vykkagur]
      #339986 - 11/04/20 01:47 AM

Quote:

"Courteney Stalking Rifle". The Mortimer Snerd of rifles....




Now THAT'S funny!!

I've seen a couple of these actions built up into very fine rifles.
Nothing really wrong with them once the couple little issues are ironed out.
I think the use of the Fraser name was just seen as distasteful by the purists sort of like California Rigby except the little "Fraser" was priced accordingly.

The "Courteney Stalking Rifle" may see the same fate as it is wrong in so many ways...

I've always thought that Ruger missed the boat by not offering a scaled down No.1 for pistol cartridges and the Hornet.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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vykkagur
.300 member


Reged: 28/11/19
Posts: 223
Loc: Canada
Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: Huvius]
      #339987 - 11/04/20 02:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

"Courteney Stalking Rifle". The Mortimer Snerd of rifles....




Now THAT'S funny!!

I've seen a couple of these actions built up into very fine rifles.
Nothing really wrong with them once the couple little issues are ironed out.
I think the use of the Fraser name was just seen as distasteful by the purists sort of like California Rigby except the little "Fraser" was priced accordingly.

The "Courteney Stalking Rifle" may see the same fate as it is wrong in so many ways...

I've always thought that Ruger missed the boat by not offering a scaled down No.1 for pistol cartridges and the Hornet.





I agree on all points Huvius.

I read in another forum that an article in the 1987 Guns&Ammo Annual stated the design was actually used under licence from Daniel Fraser's. I can't vouch for that myself, being strictly internet hearsay.


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: Huvius]
      #339988 - 11/04/20 02:26 AM

They did with the #3, although it really wasn't scaled down - could have been, kinda like the low wall Winchester, scaled down from the high wall.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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vykkagur
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Reged: 28/11/19
Posts: 223
Loc: Canada
Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: DarylS]
      #340183 - 17/04/20 08:12 PM

Perhaps I'm living in a dream world. I look at this beautiful design and I don't understand why someone couldn't manufacture something along these lines, of decent quality materials and finish, and at a fair price. I can't speak for this model, but the basic Martini action, for example, is only 13 parts including receiver; a falling-block can't be much more. As someone who produces mechanical components, I can see most of them are straightforward milling, as opposed to the combined turning and radial milling of bolt guns, and well within the capabilities of reasonably-skilled machinists, let alone CNC. If manufacturers can produce entry-level bolt guns for under $500, why not something like this? The basic features should be simple, robust, good quality but not over the top, and hopefully as good-looking as this rifle, or at least not homely (sorry Courteney Stalking Rifle.) It seems that every time a manufacturer produces something a bit out of the mainstream, they immediately want to move up-market to the affluent middle-aged customers where the big profit margins lie. The world doesn't need a $2000 plinker. How about something for the working-class enthusiast who doesn't have the skills or facilities to build his own? MBA's and business plans and market research have turned this world into a soul-less place. Harrrumph!

Now I sound like Statler AND Waldorf....


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vykkagur
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Reged: 28/11/19
Posts: 223
Loc: Canada
Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: vykkagur]
      #340184 - 17/04/20 08:13 PM

And I've set this rifle as my wallpaper, just out of spite!

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Louis
.375 member


Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 977
Loc: France
Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: vykkagur]
      #340201 - 18/04/20 01:46 AM

Marrakai, you own a really smart little rifle that I am sure most Forum members - if not all, would envy. Much stylish and classic lines as well as perfect fit with the rifle scope and, in addition a funny calibre to shoot! Thank you for sharing it with us.
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: Louis]
      #340222 - 18/04/20 12:37 PM

Cool little rifle!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
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Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: tinker]
      #340225 - 18/04/20 01:45 PM

Tony, really nice little rifle that you have there, and especially well suited to the pot rifle class in a fantastic cambering. Really slick and svelte little rifle. Anyone thinking that you are trying to pass this off as a genuine Fraser is obviously a tard. A beautiful little rifle for sure.

If anyone gives you shit about owning it tell them to piss off.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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kodiak
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Reged: 17/06/16
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Loc: melbourne, victoria
Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #340605 - 01/05/20 04:12 PM

I remember someone was importing these into Oz in the late 80s - early 90s I almost bought one at the Sydney gun show at the Horden Pavillion, was a nice little gun, a bit crude here and there but would have been a good starting place for a custom job, the one I handled had very nice wood.

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Lefthunter
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Reged: 25/11/11
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Loc: Indiana
Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: kodiak]
      #344346 - 16/08/20 07:14 AM

First, that is a lovely example of these and in a very useful chambering! I own the same rifle in .22 rim fire and the action doesn’t work properly at all. Did you have to do any modifications to the action itself to get it working or has it always performed well? Does anyone know a gunsmith that’s can fix them?

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85lc
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Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 889
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: Lefthunter]
      #344362 - 17/08/20 05:53 AM

Marrakai,
Your Fraser is certainly a lot nicer looking than any of the other faux Frasers that I have seen. Most look like a high school shop project but your rifle looks like a real rifle.
Did you refinish this beauty?

--------------------
RB


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3475
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: 85lc]
      #344375 - 17/08/20 10:44 PM

Maybe I was just lucky, but no modifications or refinishing were required. As stated I suspect whoever reamed it out to the K chamber may have done whatever work was necessary to get this little marvel shooting reliably.

I will add that past problems may have been due to repeated dry firing without a snap-cap, not the firing per se, but opening the action after dry-firing whereby the falling breech-block may damage the protruding tip of the firing-pin.

Snap-caps are always a good idea in single-shots like these IMHO if you can't resist the temptation to dry-fire!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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Louis
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Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: Marrakai]
      #344383 - 18/08/20 04:12 AM

Marrakai
A San Marco rifle that looks almost similar to yours nice one for sale on Egun in Germany https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=9156936
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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Lefthunter
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Reged: 25/11/11
Posts: 3
Loc: Indiana
Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: Louis]
      #344384 - 18/08/20 04:59 AM

The finish on mine looks very nice as well it just doesn’t function correctly. If anyone has a lead on a gunsmith that will consider a project like this please let me know. It’s too cool of a rifle to not get it working properly!
Once again, congratulations on a very nice rifle


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3475
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: Lefthunter]
      #344391 - 18/08/20 09:30 AM

Louis:
Well spotted. Virtually a twin! I am slightly envious though: despite the "extra sting" of the K-chambering I would have liked the original Hornet from a collector's point of view, and secondly the Egun example still has its original front sight blade (mine is MIA).

BTW here's that example of what has been done to a few of these interesting rifles in the UK.

...and the Italians themselves weren't shy about flashing them up either!

More envy...

Lefty: Hopefully someone on your side of the pond can recommend a gunsmith, although I doubt anyone would specialize in these things. Pretty-much any Aussie gunsmith would be curious enough to take a look.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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tinker
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Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: Marrakai]
      #344393 - 18/08/20 10:17 AM

I was handling one of these recently.
Also chambered in K-Hornet.
This one had been restocked in a style that would be seen at a Western groundhog shoot.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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CZ_hunter
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Reged: 08/07/13
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Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: Marrakai]
      #346111 - 24/10/20 06:26 AM

I one wants really a new Fraser, he should look here sidelever action by Heuberg .Just scroll down and you will see the system
More here rifle
One in 7x65R or 300 H&H Flanged would be handy

--------------------
CZ


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Fraser Wanna-be [Re: CZ_hunter]
      #346120 - 24/10/20 10:04 AM

Oh yes - a .300Flanged or 7x65R would be quite nice.
I do think I would prefer the 7x65R, thank you very much.
a friend of mine has one with a 16 bore barrel over it. Both shoot really well. The 7x65R really loves 160gr. TTSX's - will put 3 fast, consecutive shots under an inch at 100 meters off bags.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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